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Thaif

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With the Third Rome Immersion pack we are getting some new playable tags in the Russia region, those being; Rostov and Beloozero principalities.

But why not Hlynov, aka Khlynov? It's originally a fortress outpost of Novgorodians(circa 1180) situated in the upper Vyatka River, in the site of Udmurt/Mari fort or town of Vatkar or Atkar. It's first mention in town documents was in 1374. The town and region was known for it's handicrafts called Dymkovo toys.

It was annexed by Muscovy in 1489, most likely by military conquest or less likely by land purchase, there's a bit of ambiguity between sources on that.
It was also "managed" by Kazan Khanate(then called "Hilin"), either as vassal or a tributary, likely until 1489 when the Russo-Kazani wars had just started, and Hlynov decided or was "persuaded" to throw their lot with Muscovy to "throw off the Tatar yoke" so to speak.

Were Hlynov(later renamed to Vyatka/Viatka by Catherine the Great in 1780 and Made into the seat of the Vyatka Governorate) a playable tag it would create an interesting challenge similar to the other principalities.

However I would suggest that the government form be a Veche Republic similar to Pskov owning to it's novgorodian roots and for a different gameplay experience.
If this is going too far, then I'd settle for a Principality government type, and a releasable tag(with either the Veche Republic or Principality government type).

For national ideas they'd be a mix of economic and diplomatic focus, owning to the history and nature of the region as a trading route to the south through Kazan, with it's precarious geo-political position between the Kazan Khanate and the ever expanding Muscovy, not to mention the cultural situation of the region being divided between novgorodian/muscovite settlers, Udmurt/Mari locals, and the Tatars.

I'll try to get some base ideas out for the NIs as time permits.

As to the heraldry or "shield-of-arms" in the game it would either be the oldest recorded one with a hand holding a crossbow:
image026.jpg

Heraldic description: A crossbow per pale held by and arm issuant from the sinister.
Or the later versions featuring a longbow:
image027.jpg

Early 16th century seal of Khlynov.

image029.jpg

The arms of Vjatka in the Tsarski Tituliarnik (1672)

image031.jpg

The coat of arms for the city, adopted on 28 May 1781 when
Catherine the Great made Vyatka the seat of Vyatka Governorate.

image032.jpg

The coat of arms of Vyatka Governorate granted on 8 Decemeber 1856.

Thoughts?
 

Thaif

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I'd say it's about relevant as Rostov, Beloozero, Vologda, Perm and Pskov(not to mention Karelians and Sami having actual nation tags). That is to say not that relevant, but still good to include for sake of completion, history or to offer something different.

The reason I'm even suggesting this is the immersion pack focused on Russia and the region in general. Now if ever is a good time to be "pointless" about detail; the pack is about detail and flavor.

Edit: I forgot to mention Odoyev as a example of "irrelevant" OPM, yet it has it's own NIs(props to the resourceful forumite who compiled those) and is an interesting bit of flavor, if a difficult one to play due to it's tough starting position.
 
Last edited:

Thaif

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But it does seem they were fairly irrelevant outside of their own province.
I'd say the same about: Perm, Yaroslav, Rostov, Odoyev, Pskov, Beloozero, Ryazan and Tver. Not to mention the releasable tag of Nizhny Novgorod. I fully admit that I have an interest in obscure or less known historical factoids, but seeing as other tags have had a bit of color added to them I don't see why just arbitrarily neglect one and pass on this one.

Again, the Immersion pack is about immersion and flavor. Right now the upcoming Veche Republic government is going to be used by just 2 nations(I think, could be wrong on this). There'd be it's own challenge of trying to manage a northern merchant state right on the edge of west and east.