Why not build on Darkest Hours expanded timeline for next expansion?

[Danmark Rising]

You know, with this reasoning, you could go as far as saying that World War Two started when man invented fire...

No you couldn't... There is a fairly distinct demarcation line that lies right before WWI. From 1880 to 1914 there are no conflicts that tie directly into WWI. The closest one is the Franco-Prussian war that ended in 1871 and the Russo-Turkish war that ended in 1879 and neither of these conflicts led to the events that caused WWI. Nor does the Spanish American war of 1898 or the Russo-Japanese wars of '03 and '05. There are however direct connections from WWI (1914) through WWII continuing right on to Korea and Vietnam where the line ends in 1975.

 

[Jekolmy]

WWII was definitely a continuation of the Great War or at least had a significant amount of causation from the 'peace' that came at the end of the Great War. The economic and military penalties placed on Germany were terribly severe and if you ask me in this case at least, was in fact war by other means. You don't just humiliate someone (or a country) and expect them to not see about getting even at some later date. Thats my take on it at least.

 

[nett40]

It's simple:
If the game was one that it would have cost $ ~100. Who spends so much money on one game?

So we have three games that cost $ 30 for each.

of course there is a one other problem. Someone like WWII but I do not like the Napoleonic Wars

What has the Napoleon Wars to do with Soviet history? WW1, WW2 and the Korean War were all very crucial parts of Soviet history!

Btw. In Victoria II, World War 1 never happens and IRL the Victorian age ended around 1900.

 

[nett40]

No you couldn't... There is a fairly distinct demarcation line that lies right before WWI. From 1880 to 1914 there are no conflicts that tie directly into WWI. The closest one is the Franco-Prussian war that ended in 1871 and the Russo-Turkish war that ended in 1879 and neither of these conflicts led to the events that caused WWI. Nor does the Spanish American war of 1898 or the Russo-Japanese wars of '03 and '05. There are however direct connections from WWI (1914) through WWII continuing right on to Korea and Vietnam where the line ends in 1975.

+1

 

[Alex_brunius]

While it might be possible to model WW1 trench warfare with the HoI3 system, It's impossible to do the Cold war era justice without making an entire new game.

Doesn't matter if we are talking about a historical coldwar with minor conflicts or a coldwar-gone-hot scenario.

Just look at how HoI3 handles spheres of influence, nuclear submarines, nukes and missiles for example, 4 key components in both these scenarios. I wouldn't want to play a Coldwar based game where fighter planes can intercept intercontinental missiles and drag them into a stationary 4hour furball fight. Another argument is, how many here would agree that the Doomsday add on for HoI2 was a good simulation of the coldwar? The most we can get in an expansion for Hoi3 is something like doomsday, so I'm happy with Paradox decision to keep working on WW2 for the expansions.

If the game is to be made, I think it should be a new separate series.

 

[PB-DK]

well for the simple reason that hoi 3 still isn't WAD, just the simple fact that ai can't even keep their units under control or within command range, not to mention the rest, useless and non functioning orders and yadayada so on

 

[kunadam]

First of all I disagree that wars right before 1914 are less attached to WWII and conflicts after it more so. I would for example point out that WWI and WWII was between roughly the same sides, but post WWII conflicts were between the two new superpowers. These new superpowers came to be as a results of WWI and WWII, but this also true for the great powers of WWI/II emerging from the Victorian age (and some like France and the UK from ages before that).

Second, and that is the more important could HoI3 simulate a much extended time period? I think not.
- WWI was as much about conflicst between classes/ideologies and nationalistic movement as a conflcit between countries. Russia needed to quit the war because of the revolution. Austro-Hungary faced difficulties as many of its ethnic group began to rebell. Could you influence these factors in HoI3 to the same extent as in Vicky? Not. So it is not a good way to model WWI. A pure war simulation is possible as in DH, but then it would not extend to post WWI era.
- Cold war? In HoI3 you can fling nuclear weapons without so much global conequences. The engine simulates the shock effect of the weapon (dissent) but it is not build to deal with massive use of it.
Now think about the Vietnam or the Afganishtan war in HoI3 terms. USA/USSR has magnitudes more divisions. They would just go there, flex some tiny amount of military muscle and the war would be over, leaving some partisan activity that would be taken care of by an air-cavalry division.
- HoI2/3 is a great game of simulating a particular military conflict in history. Period.

 

[Danmark Rising]

First of all I disagree that wars right before 1914 are less attached to WWII and conflicts after it more so.

There are no major conflicts in the 34 years prior to WWI. The Russo-Turkish war ended in 1879. There was relative peace in Europe for 3 decades before WWI. France, the UK, and even Russia to an extent were great powers before the Victorian Age began and their power came from colonization, not from fighting amongst themselves. There are a few small skirmishes, but none of them have any connection to WWI.

The Cold War, including the hot flare ups of Korea and Vietnam, were the direct result of WWII in which the US and the USSR.

Could HOI3 handle modeling events from 1914 to 1975? Absolutely. It would help if the diplomatic part of the game was made significantly more in depth, but the engine is more than capable of handling it.

Should Paradox spend time expanding the time line? Probably not. It would cool to see what they could do with it but frankly I'd be much happier to see them create a way to move a saved game from EU3 into Vicy2 and then on into HOI3, and of course have a Cold War game were the save could be brought forward again. But pf course that's up to them. All we are doing here is expressing a desire for such capability and stating our reasons why we believe it can work.

 

[pretyx]

I think paradox should focus more on scenarios. There are many scenarious which could be recreated from ww1 up to cold war.

 

[nett40]

I think paradox should focus more on scenarios. There are many scenarious which could be recreated from ww1 up to cold war.

+1

 

[nett40]

There are no major conflicts in the 34 years prior to WWI. The Russo-Turkish war ended in 1879. There was relative peace in Europe for 3 decades before WWI. France, the UK, and even Russia to an extent were great powers before the Victorian Age began and their power came from colonization, not from fighting amongst themselves. There are a few small skirmishes, but none of them have any connection to WWI.

The Cold War, including the hot flare ups of Korea and Vietnam, were the direct result of WWII in which the US and the USSR.

Could HOI3 handle modeling events from 1914 to 1975? Absolutely. It would help if the diplomatic part of the game was made significantly more in depth, but the engine is more than capable of handling it.

Should Paradox spend time expanding the time line? Probably not. It would cool to see what they could do with it but frankly I'd be much happier to see them create a way to move a saved game from EU3 into Vicy2 and then on into HOI3, and of course have a Cold War game were the save could be brought forward again. But pf course that's up to them. All we are doing here is expressing a desire for such capability and stating our reasons why we believe it can work.

+1