Why no ship-smoke-screens against aircrafts in WWII?

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Acheron

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When it came to ship-vs-ship action, smoke screens were apparently often used to facilitate a getaway. However, I have not read about ships using smoke screens against attacking aircraft. Is this true? If so, why? I would suspect that smoke formed a low-lying wall and would be of no use against aircraft, which would easily see over it. Or was it another reason?

If so, were torpedo bombers also flying too high to be affected? And wasn't creating a smoke cloud to envelope the ship feasible?
 

Count Blue

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When it came to ship-vs-ship action, smoke screens were apparently often used to facilitate a getaway. However, I have not read about ships using smoke screens against attacking aircraft. Is this true? If so, why? I would suspect that smoke formed a low-lying wall and would be of no use against aircraft, which would easily see over it. Or was it another reason?

If so, were torpedo bombers also flying too high to be affected? And wasn't creating a smoke cloud to envelope the ship feasible?

I believe the smoke screen of ships is just to disguise its true distance against counterbattery fire.
With aircrafts in the air involved that is simply not possible.
Their perspective is different smoke doesnt conceal anything up there.
Aircrafts get close to ships and also aircrafts from carrieres usually come in great numbers.

Torpedobombers in WWII usually flew very low in order to drop the torpedo as flat into the water as possible.
They get so close that a smoke screen doesnt do much anymore. You wont miss the ship because of it.
 

Andre Bolkonsky

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When it came to ship-vs-ship action, smoke screens were apparently often used to facilitate a getaway. However, I have not read about ships using smoke screens against attacking aircraft. Is this true? If so, why? I would suspect that smoke formed a low-lying wall and would be of no use against aircraft, which would easily see over it. Or was it another reason?

If so, were torpedo bombers also flying too high to be affected? And wasn't creating a smoke cloud to envelope the ship feasible?

Please forward this to the individuals at Wargaming.com. They did not get the memo.

If the ship is moving forward, the vessel is still visible from the air. If it is stationary, it is an umissable target.

You form a line of smoke, and operate/maneuver behind it.
 

Acheron

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Thank you both, so, creating a smoke or fog (steam?) screen that would settle above the ship was unfeasible?

If torpedo bombers flew low enough to be affected by the usual smoke screen, wouldn't that help? I mean, even if they break through the smoke screen and get a clear view, they would have less time to correct their approach. To my knowledge, ships sometimes had a change to dodge the torpedoes, IIRC, Prince-of-Wales and Repulse got caught by two simultaneous torpedo attacks from different angles.

Just to be clear, I have no hopes of hiding the ships so that the aircraft cannot find it, I am just hoping to meaningfully impair the bombing run.
 

Andre Bolkonsky

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This is what a WWII era smoke screen looks like coming out of a destroyer.

The curtain of smoke is designed to hide ships from ships, not planes.

The ship is moving, the wind is blowing on the ocean (probably) with great force, the smoke will not stand still unless circumstances are absolutely perfect.
 
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Kovax

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Usually, the smoke screen had to be laid by DDs traveling parallel to the overall fleet direction and slightly ahead of it, otherwise the smoke would only conceal the back halves of the ships laying it. If the smoke is relatively cool and hangs low to the water, then aircraft above will have no trouble spotting or dive-bombing from above, although it MIGHT make the approach runs of torpedo bombers a bit more convoluted. If the smoke is warm, and rises to form a hazy overhead blanket, then it won't hug the water, and the torpedo bombers will typically fly UNDER the heavier concentrations, while other surface ships will be less affected by it as well, and it STILL won't hide the ships from aircraft overhead, because they'll see over it to the ships within the formation.

Note that it still won't hide the ships completely from ANY attackers except behind the densest pockets, but it will make shell-splashes difficult to judge, and may lead to confusion as to whether that's a capital ship and a couple of escorts, or two capital ships and an escort or two. It will also make it very hard to determine if that "other" ship is partly in front of it and blocking it, or partly behind it. German "fracture" camo was designed to maximize the confusion about where the bow and stern began and ended, and made it difficult to tell whether you were seeing one ship or two, or even three. It didn't hide the actual presence of the ship(s).
 
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Acheron

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Thank you all! I figured there was a reason why some was not used against aircraft, but I could not figure out what. From all this, I gather that the smoke screens produced are simply too small, they are useful from obscuring the view between the smoking ship and other ships, but aircraft simply fly too high and fast and/or fast, requiring essentially a whole cloud to hide the ship in, which simply was not doable, right so far?
 

Andre Bolkonsky

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Thank you all! I figured there was a reason why some was not used against aircraft, but I could not figure out what. From all this, I gather that the smoke screens produced are simply too small, they are useful from obscuring the view between the smoking ship and other ships, but aircraft simply fly too high and fast and/or fast, requiring essentially a whole cloud to hide the ship in, which simply was not doable, right so far?

Yes, you are correct. A plane stopped in the ocean hiding in smoke from an airplane is a fiction that only works in World of Warships where Stalin Paper Ships rule supreme over any petty boat made of steel and actually fired a round in combat.

The ships must keep moving, and when the plane shows up they will move to maximum speed to help avoid the incoming damage.

In fact, unless I am very much mistaken, capital ships that mounted aircraft trained to spot rounds and help fire control (before radar) would be effective helping ships overcome the smoke and continue firing effectively when it was in use.
 

Acheron

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Sure, ships need to move, I was thinking along the lines of the ships moving in circles and producing a hiding cloud on the way, one large enough to obscure a whole area where the ship can move around, but again, I take it that was beyond a ships smoke-making capabilities?
 

Ming

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So why not smoke laying airplanes?

Surely a fleet could have benefitted from the ability to quickly weave a 3D cloud of smoke.
 

Acheron

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My guess would be that for this you needed airplanes anyway and then you might as well arm them and go after the attackers for better results.

Hiding your fleet in a cloud would after all also impacts its offensive capabilities. Your carriers would be unable to launch and receive aircraft and you other ships unable to shoot, no? I figured with surface-action-ships caught by enemy aircraft, this might be worth it, there the only trade-off is between reducing your AA-capabilities, if the cloud would have dine a better job at messing with the attackers, then go for it instead.
 

Graf Zeppelin

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The Tirpitz used smoke against RAF attacks. Actually smokescreens been used alot in ww2 but they been not very effective.

Air attacks aside most heavier ships had floatplanes for spoting which could easily peek over the screen while remaining out of heavy AA range.
Also laying down smokescreens makes you move in a predictable path which is very bad vs torpedo attackers which been common in ww2.
 
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Andre Bolkonsky

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So why not smoke laying airplanes?

Surely a fleet could have benefitted from the ability to quickly weave a 3D cloud of smoke.

Wind
The Tirpitz used smoke against RAF attacks. Actually smokescreens been used alot in ww2 but they been not very effective.

Air attacks aside most heavier ships had floatplanes for spoting which could easily peek over the screen while remaining out of heavy AA range.
Also laying down smokescreens makes you move in a predictable path which is very bad vs torpedo attackers which been common in ww2.
Unless I am mistaken, Tirpitz was moored in a fjord at the time?
 

Graf Zeppelin

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Andre Bolkonsky

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There is the exception that proves the rule:

A capital ship on a narrow body of water surrounded by high mountains CAN effectively use smoke in defeating an air attack.

All ships should be kept in port to keep them from sinking!

/nods
 

Acheron

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Better yet: on land.

... would have been awesome if the Nazis as a last ditch effort had transported whatever ships they still had somewhere to Berlin to dig them in as fortifications or somesuch crazy stupid scheme.
It's not only crazy and stupid but also ridiculously gargantuan, so it is a perfect fit. Right out of "My tank is fight" (a book I can heartily recommend).
 

elektrizikekswerk

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Better yet: on land.

... would have been awesome if the Nazis as a last ditch effort had transported whatever ships they still had somewhere to Berlin to dig them in as fortifications or somesuch crazy stupid scheme.
Even better: Put them on tracks. Why build Landkreuzer when you can have Landschlachtschiff?