Why no disadvantages to higher mobilization or standing armies?

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Dec 5, 2021
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I always found this strange. Using game logic, nations are fools for not going full war economy and having armies millions strong standing around for years…even though in real life and in this time period, there are massive costs for dedicating so much of your economy to wartime production and employing so much of your population to being a standing army…which is why, generally speaking, the nations of the world dont do it.

Now, I know part of it is that this is specifially a world war 2 game, and your production is basically leading up to this point…understood, were not looking at the long term consequences of economic policies.

But even then, I find it strange that civilian economy is just a straight debuff compared to war economy, even for building civilian factories or infrastructure. Or that there are 0 costs (outside of the political points upfront) to switch to a higher mobilization.

Likewise, you would think that standing armies would have some sort of cost…maybe simulated through small amounts of attrition. As is, it makes it look like theres no reason not to have millions of fully trained troops just standing around for years. In game theres no reason at all to demobilize at the conclusion of a war, even if your game goes on for like a decade. Which is of course contrary to real life.

I also think the costs associated with conscription laws are not nearly high enough. Volunteer Only is mostly fine not having negatives, but extensive conscription only adding on 10% training time seems so inconsequential. If nothing else youd think this would cost a sizable chunk of stability by having such widespread drafts into the army. I know this is locked behind war support but even then thats a pretty massive change in society.
 
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Ossiv

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Thatd be pretty interesting. Kind of reflecting how youre choosing from the cream of the crop, healthy individuals of reasonable age and ability, so they have more innate capability.
Voluntary service does not draw the "cream" of the people to the military, especially not for the lower ranks. If an unemployed or uneducated person joins the military as the only means to find work, that was far from elite.

Conscripting every able bodied man gives better than average representation of skills of the whole (male) population, when the educational level at least equals the population average, while physically or mentally unfit are excluded.
 
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Ashantai

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This thread has drifted well off topic.

Stay on the game only. There is to be no discussion of real historical items or prisoner/labour camps.
 

NeomerArcana

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Higher conscription should lower Stability based upon a percentage of War Support. In general, it won't really matter if you're Democratic, Fascist, or Communist. If the people support the war, then they will be okay with more conscription laws. But, to counter that, higher war-support should generate more volunteers to lessen your need to implement conscription.

Conscription should initially increase the standard of your armies, maybe represented as Experience, because you're getting a better cross-section of your country; but higher conscription, notably Scraping the Barrel, should get less quality, again probably represented easily as Experience. Conscription should also have negative effects at every stage, either factory production, or training time, and stability.

Also, people are discussing mobilization as though it doesn't exist. I haven't played lots and lots of HOI4, but I can set unit templates as "Reserves". Do these not then become strengthened when Partial/Full Mobilization is enacted?
 
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Voluntary service does not draw the "cream" of the people to the military, especially not for the lower ranks. If an unemployed or uneducated person joins the military as the only means to find work, that was far from elite.
Volunteers is not auto accepted. The army has the right to reject and ability to raise salary for certain groups. For example, India Gurkha and Japan Korean troops.
 
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Higher conscription should lower Stability based upon a percentage of War Support. In general, it won't really matter if you're Democratic, Fascist, or Communist. If the people support the war, then they will be okay with more conscription laws. But, to counter that, higher war-support should generate more volunteers to lessen your need to implement conscription.

Conscription should initially increase the standard of your armies, maybe represented as Experience, because you're getting a better cross-section of your country; but higher conscription, notably Scraping the Barrel, should get less quality, again probably represented easily as Experience. Conscription should also have negative effects at every stage, either factory production, or training time, and stability.

Also, people are discussing mobilization as though it doesn't exist. I haven't played lots and lots of HOI4, but I can set unit templates as "Reserves". Do these not then become strengthened when Partial/Full Mobilization is enacted?
The reserve divisions are mobilized immediately. They just get the older equipment. Otherwise there is no difference.
 

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Reserves/Mobilization/Quality of Manpower is just one of the big things missing from the simulation. Current implementation is very abstracted and simplistic. New mod takes a stab at it called Total Mobilisation but it's a large overhaul that changes a lot with the game.
 
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Reserves/Mobilization/Quality of Manpower is just one of the big things missing from the simulation. Current implementation is very abstracted and simplistic. New mod takes a stab at it called Total Mobilisation but it's a large overhaul that changes a lot with the game.

One of the main frustrations many seasoned players have with this franchise is that it's one step forward, one step back. If you go back a dozen years, to Arsenal of Democracy, this system was fixed and worked really well. Hell they even simulated money, because you had to build supplies with your factories, so as soon as a war died down, you would de-mobilize, thus reducing your supply cost by 80%, thus allowing you to build /spend money on other things, like more aircraft, more tanks, more ships, etc.
 
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