• We will be taking the forums down for scheduled maintenance on 12 August 2020 at approximately 3PM CDT (8PM UTC / 10PM CEST), this downtime is currently estimated to last around 1 hour.
  • Pre order now!

    Paradox Development Studio brings you the sequel to one of the most popular strategy games ever made! Crusader Kings III is soon upon us and you can pre order it today!


    Releasing September 1st 2020

AnemoneMeer

Corporal
20 Badges
Mar 24, 2018
29
2
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II
It's taken me a long time to think about this tbh. A lot of the changes made with the updates and patches have been such massive steps in the right direction that I earnestly love the direction the game is taking. I love the faction design and the mod system and food import/export is a system that honestly kinda ruined Civ for me. There's so much good here. So much that I honestly hope becomes industry standard.

And yet. I don't feel particularly compelled to start up new games. Not in the same way I did for AoW3. And it's been weeks now where I've not been feeling it. So I started looking over the AoW3 wiki and such and trying to figure out why the game, when it's so good in theory and has so many mechanics I honestly love and is only getting better and better with every update, doesn't feel compelling for me to start a new map.

I think, it might be because of how the game's opening turns play. Looking over the elf units reminded me of how I ended up at some point being carried by all of them, and the other factions units in that I have been vexed in some way by all of them. More over, I remember starting with weird combinations of just about all of them. And that there were a LOT of them in the starting pool. In every game I play in Planetfall, I start with basically just "A combat unit" and "A scout" for units I can build, and my army is nothing more than some T1 combat units, some scouts, and one T2.

Back in AoW3, you had up to as many as 6 possible T1 units (Archer, Melee, Spear, Irregular, Scout, Class) with any given race/class combo. In planetfall, you have 2. Looking at how my Planetfall games have started. I can't actually tell them apart all that much in my head. I can't picture scenarios that were vastly different from eachother because.... they weren't. As the games went on I absolutely can. That time I had a solo commander in a wraith tank rampaging. That time I had the perfect production center for churning out super-Enforcers. That time I taught the Psi-Fish religion and spread it through the planet. Games branch out into wild and wonderful directions. But the first 20 turns can take a long time to play through, and they don't feel remotely distinct from playthrough to playthrough. It just feels like fighting the same battles every game with no real variance because I have the same units every time and you can only overwatch bait so many hopperhounds before it just feels the same.

AoW3 eventually closed to just T4 spam vs T4 spam, which was the weakest part of the game, but at the start, you'd have relatively mismatched armies of archers and cavalry and whatever else you could throw together, buy from inns, capture, or generally have. Planetfall starts with T1 spam vs T1 spam and stays that way for a decent enough chunk of the game that at this point, I think we need some extra unit variety in the T1 roster for every race, or possibly even a T1 producable unit for every secret tech. Just adding one additional T1 unit to every race would probably do wonders for improving the earlygame's variety. Because once the game moves past that initial lack of variety, it's absolutely excellent, and the changes to improve the midgame and world all feel excellent to play.
 
Last edited:
  • 2
Reactions: Chikanuk and Ridixo

Uto_piec

Corporal
51 Badges
Jan 3, 2011
38
1
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
I hated random starting armies in AoW3 and I think Planetfall is a step in right direction. What would be even more cool would be if You create commander You can chose what units You start with. Of course to balance it there had to be some point cost for every unit and the point total You have to spend.
I totally agree that each race should have more tier I units. This would deffinitely make initial faze more interesting.
 

AnemoneMeer

Corporal
20 Badges
Mar 24, 2018
29
2
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II
I hated random starting armies in AoW3 and I think Planetfall is a step in right direction. What would be even more cool would be if You create commander You can chose what units You start with. Of course to balance it there had to be some point cost for every unit and the point total You have to spend.
I totally agree that each race should have more tier I units. This would deffinitely make initial faze more interesting.
I don't think the starting army should be random, just that we should have a bit more unit variety in the starting force.
 

Mauer

Swarmherald
95 Badges
Oct 7, 2012
3.351
973
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
It would be good if we could have access to more units early reliably, you can get some from quests and marauder camps but these die fast (especially if they're melee as the autocombat likes to expose them a lot).

Maybe if NPC units were cheaper, could be bought earlier or were quest rewards often so we could use them when they're more relevant; for example I don't think I've used Growth bees more than two or three times since they're too fragile to spend influence on them past the early game when I prefer to use influence on settlements or diplomacy.
 

Cainist

Sergeant
4 Badges
Jun 9, 2019
58
18
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Magicka
I do agree that the opening rounds could be a bit more diverse. I'm not sure that randomness is the right answer though. I think there are a few options to remedy this.
1. As Uto said, a points based system that would let you buy a starting army could be fun, especially if you were able to purchase units you don't have the tech for yet.
2. As Anemone suggested, adding a new tier 1 unit. I would be blown away if they created a unique tier 1 for each secret tech/race combo.
3. Having an advanced start option that begins the game where you'd be around turn 15-20.
 

Zenicetus

Captain
19 Badges
May 10, 2016
378
663
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Age of Wonders III
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
I guess I don't mind the starting army because it fits the lore and helps with role-playing. You're in a drop ship starting a new colony with whatever was available as a basic expeditionary force in your star ship. Without "planetfall" facilities you can't research and make better units. Having other races or a mix of secret techs in that initial landing wouldn't feel right to me.

So I'm dealing with the early game unit monotony by role-playing it as an expeditionary force. It doesn't take that long before I suddenly get a free non-faction unit from a NPC quest, or some other event that starts to mix up my armies.

Creating a new T1 unit for each faction would fit that "initial landing" lore and make the early turns more different each time, but it's a lot to ask of the devs, considering the artwork and balancing required.
 

DragonZee

Captain
13 Badges
Aug 31, 2019
372
58
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
1. You simply have a case of material fatigue. Give the game a rest. Games cannot be played indifinately. Wait for dlc, I'm sure it'll freshen things up.
2. If starting armies are the problem here, there's a simple solution devs should consider - more map customization options. Customize starting armies, resources, tech level, AI army strenght. Maybe custom battle mode? Scenarios? Civ games have those scenarios with modded units like "Steampunk". I would love to start the game with full tech tree researched. Why shouldn't this options be available, the game is highly customizible? If there are no technical limitations it's worth taking into consideration.

Adding location quests was a step in the right direction when it comes to diversifying games.

I've put around 200 hours into the game. Definately more then most other games I play. I say it's plenty.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: nvc for the soul

Melikat

Private
16 Badges
Nov 29, 2019
22
0
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Magicka
Here's a list of starting units and strengths I compiled shortly after the Tyrannosaurus patch. Increasing the Starting Strength will change up the starting units a bit and could help (specifically the higher tech units in Tier3 by using Strong start + Detachment). Note that the highest tier is only achievable by the AI.

(Hopefully this copies readably enough).
Code:
(Tier 0 = Weak Starting Strength)
(Tier 1 = Normal Starting Strength)
(Tier 2 = Strong Starting Strength)
(Military Detachment = +1 Strength)
(Very hard AI = +1 Strength)
(Extreme AI = +2 Strength)
(There doesn't appear to be a Tier5 for Extreme, Strong, Military detachment. Same units as T4)
(The Secret Tech unit is of course variable as is Amazon's animal)

-Tier 0
Kirko		1x Unleashed, 2x Emergent, 1x Frenzied, 1x Hidden, 1x Initiate
Syndicate	1x Runner, 1x Indentured, 1x Overseer, 1x Initiate
Amazon		1x Shrike, 1x Huntress, 1x Biomancer, 1x Initiate, (1x Wild Harrier)
Dvar		1x Prospector, 1x Trencher, 1x Foreman, 1x Pustule
Assembly	1x Inspector, 1x Scavenger, 1x Vorpal Sniper, 1x Light Bringer
Vanguard	1x Owl, 1x Trooper, 1x PUG, 1x Echo Walker

-Tier 1
Kirko		2x Unleashed, 2x Emergent, 2x Frenzied, 1x Hidden, 1x Light Bringer
Syncidate	2x Runner, 2x Indentured, 1x Overseer, 1x Siphoner
Amazon		2x Shrike, 2x Huntress, 1x Biomancer, 1x Echo Walker, (1x Penguin)
Dvar		2x Prospector, 2x Trencher, 1x Foreman, 1x Echo Walker
Assembly	2x Inspector, 2x Scavenger, 1x Vorpal Sniper, 1x Echo Walker
Vanguard	2x Owl, 2x Trooper, 1x PUG, 1x Siphoner

-Tier 2
Kirko		2x Unleashed, 2x Emergent, 3x Frenzied, 1x Transcendent, 1x Hidden, 1x Initiate
Syndicate	2x Runner, 3x Indentured, 1x Overseer, 1x Guild Assassin, 1x Initiate
Amazon		2x Shrike, 3x Huntress, 1x Biomancer, 1 Lancer, 1x Purifier, (1x Wild Harrier)
Dvar		1x Prospector, 4x Trencher, 1x Foreman, 1x Bulwark, 1x Purifier
Assembly	2x Inspector, 3x Scavenger, 1x Vorpal Sniper, 1x Electrocutioner, 1x Siphoner
Vanguard	2x Owl, 3x Trooper, 1x PUG, 1x Assault Bike, 1x Hacker

-Tier 3
Kirko		1x Unleashed, 2x Emergent, 2x Frenzied, 2x Transcendent, 1x Hidden, 1x Engulfer, 1x Pustule
Syndicate	1x Runner, 2x Indentured, 1x Overseer, 1x Guild Assassin, 1x Enforcer, 1x Mirage, 1x Purifier
Amazon		1x Shrike, 2x Huntress, 1x Biomancer, 1x Lancer, 1x Harrier, 1x Arborian, 1x Siphoner, (1x Hopperhound)
Dvar		1x Prospector, 2x Trencher, 2x Foreman, 1x Bulwark, 1x Ramjet, 1x Light Bringer
Assembly	1x Inspector, 2x Scavenger, 1x Vorpal Sniper, 1x Electro, 1x Ltng Rider, 1x Rev Engineer, 1x Purifier
Vanguard	1x Owl, 2x Trooper, 1x PUG, 1x Assault Bike, 1x Gunship, 1x Engineer, 1x Purifier

-Tier 4
Kirko		1x Unleashed, 2x Emergent, 2x Frenzied, 2x Transcendent, 2x Hidden, 2x Engulfer, 1x Purifier
Syndicate	1x Runner, 2x Indentured, 2x Overseer, 1x Guild Assassin, 2x Enforcer, 1x Mirage, 1 Purifier
Amazon		1x Shrike, 2x Huntress, 2x Biomancer, 2x Lancer, 2x Harrier, 1x Light Bringer, (1x Penguin)
Dvar		1x Prospector, 2x Trencher, 2x Foreman, 2x Bulwark, 2x Ramjet, 1x Light Bringer
Assembly	1x Inspector, 2x Scavenger, 2x Vorpal Sniper, 2x Electrocutioner, 2x Reverse Engineer, 1x Purifier
Vanguard	1x Owl, 2x Trooper, 2x PUG, 1x Assault Bike, 2x Gunship, 1x Engineer, 1x Purifier
 
Last edited:

HousePet

General
10 Badges
Jun 16, 2018
2.372
35
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
Back in AoW3, you had up to as many as 6 possible T1 units (Archer, Melee, Spear, Irregular, Scout, Class) with any given race/class combo. In planetfall, you have 2.
This line is very problematic.
1: You only had a Spear (Polearm) unit as a T1 if it had been swapped with your Infantry T1. Polearm units are T2. (so 5 vs 2)
2: Your Class T1 unit was locked behind Research (and a structure). So why include that, but discount the T2 unit that you can build in Planetfall without Research? (5 vs 3)
3: A few Secret Techs and Factions do give you an extra T1 unit that you can summon. Kir'Ko Promethean has a whole 4 T1 units available to it. (5 vs 3+0.5)
4: Access to T1 NPC units is easier, so you shouldn't really discount them. (Even though they do still seem a bit too expensive. But I think this might partly be because the game quickly switches to T2 units.) (5 vs 3+0.5+0.5)
5: You seem to have forgotten that all Races in AoW:3 played almost the same with their T1 units. Sure you could field different combinations of T1 units in AoW:3, but if you switched starting Race, not much changed. (And this continued into T2.) In Planetfall, switching starting Faction is as different as switching up your AoW:3 T1 unit choices. The variety is still there, you just access it differently.

That said, I think we went too linear with the T1 units this time. I would not have minded having an extra T1 unit, and not having a T2 unit unlocked to start with.
On the plus side, I don't feel like we got T0 units this time around. I've always felt that the AoW:3 Scout and Irregular units were (almost) never worth using in combat. So for me, Planetfall feels like I've got almost the same number of viable T1 units to choose from.
 
  • 1
Reactions: Goemoe

Uto_piec

Corporal
51 Badges
Jan 3, 2011
38
1
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
I think there should be at least 2 tier I units for each faction: melee and ranged. This would definitely help balance the early game and allow players to adjust race to their preferences. Becouse of mods, race differences would still be there and Krenko shooting unit should not be as powerfull as Vanguards. Also there are Assembly who have mixed ranged/melee so their second unit would need probably a different approach.
 

Elder Fogcrow

Novice Martial Artist
16 Badges
Apr 23, 2009
520
2
  • Majesty 2
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Elven Legacy Collection
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic
  • Age of Wonders
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • PDXCon 2019 "Baron"
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
In my experiance, the first 20 turns are not too similar between games unless I make it so:
1. Your Commander, the strongest starting unit so to speak, can be your choice between melee, Assault(range 5-7), sniper(range 9) or support - or battle vehicle user.
2. Each secret tech has its own starting unit.
3. The option to produce a T2 that can be used as the core of your future army is only a building away, some seem to underpreform in autocombat if you add only one to a starting stack( like lancers or assault bikes), but if you have 2 or more they start working.
 

Natasha-lynn

Corporal
Apr 15, 2019
26
2
See quote below where you're wrong, There's a Kirko tactic, rushing to barragers, which is highly effective, so it's not T1 vs T1. The secret tech higher tier units are also easy to get and you can base tactics on them.

Planetfall starts with T1 spam vs T1 spam and stays that way for a decent enough chunk of the game that at this point, I think we need some extra unit variety in the T1 roster for every race, or possibly even a T1 producable unit for every secret tech. Just adding one additional T1 unit to every race would probably do wonders for improving the earlygame's variety. Because once the game moves past that initial lack of variety, it's absolutely excellent, and the changes to improve the midgame and world all feel excellent to play
 

AnemoneMeer

Corporal
20 Badges
Mar 24, 2018
29
2
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II
This line is very problematic.
1: You only had a Spear (Polearm) unit as a T1 if it had been swapped with your Infantry T1. Polearm units are T2. (so 5 vs 2)
2: Your Class T1 unit was locked behind Research (and a structure). So why include that, but discount the T2 unit that you can build in Planetfall without Research? (5 vs 3)
3: A few Secret Techs and Factions do give you an extra T1 unit that you can summon. Kir'Ko Promethean has a whole 4 T1 units available to it. (5 vs 3+0.5)
4: Access to T1 NPC units is easier, so you shouldn't really discount them. (Even though they do still seem a bit too expensive. But I think this might partly be because the game quickly switches to T2 units.) (5 vs 3+0.5+0.5)
5: You seem to have forgotten that all Races in AoW:3 played almost the same with their T1 units. Sure you could field different combinations of T1 units in AoW:3, but if you switched starting Race, not much changed. (And this continued into T2.) In Planetfall, switching starting Faction is as different as switching up your AoW:3 T1 unit choices. The variety is still there, you just access it differently.

That said, I think we went too linear with the T1 units this time. I would not have minded having an extra T1 unit, and not having a T2 unit unlocked to start with.
On the plus side, I don't feel like we got T0 units this time around. I've always felt that the AoW:3 Scout and Irregular units were (almost) never worth using in combat. So for me, Planetfall feels like I've got almost the same number of viable T1 units to choose from.
1. High elves and humans get spearmen as a T1. Goblins got them as a T2. High elves and humans also had T1 infantry. It was based on race.
2. Class T1 was locked a bit, but you could still spawn with the research for it. It was also generally easier to get up and running than current T2's in my experience, but that is correct. I was mentioning sheer numbers variety for T1's however, not rate of deployment.
3. Every class in 3 gave you an extra T1, and most were summons.
4. Easier, but your starting influence is better spent elsewhere regardless of playstyle, because instant purchasing colonies does more than one T1 unit. Additionally, it's still locked behind two quests.
5. This is mostly true, sadly. But it did mean your starting armies for any given individual race at least felt different each playthrough.

I played Rogue and Dreadnought a lot in 3, so I got a ton of use out of irregulars and scouts.

See quote below where you're wrong, There's a Kirko tactic, rushing to barragers, which is highly effective, so it's not T1 vs T1. The secret tech higher tier units are also easy to get and you can base tactics on them.
Doesn't change the first 10-15 turns. Barrager rush is legit, but it has no bearing on how the start of the game goes for Kir'ko besides tech choices. You still have no unit variety for a while.

In my experiance, the first 20 turns are not too similar between games unless I make it so:
1. Your Commander, the strongest starting unit so to speak, can be your choice between melee, Assault(range 5-7), sniper(range 9) or support - or battle vehicle user.
2. Each secret tech has its own starting unit.
3. The option to produce a T2 that can be used as the core of your future army is only a building away, some seem to underpreform in autocombat if you add only one to a starting stack( like lancers or assault bikes), but if you have 2 or more they start working.
1. Commander differences are legitimate for some setups, and not worth mentioning for others. Heritor for example, you're taking the staff every game, it's that good.
2. Secret Tech unit was a massive improvement here and I am extremely glad it was added.
3. In practice it's two buildings and two sector specializations away. Typically more because colonizers. Early colonizers and sectors are just so important to securing a solid start on larger maps.

--------------------------------

The more I think about it, the better it sounds to me to just... have one more T1 unit for each race.
 

NINJEW

Lt. General
30 Badges
Jul 25, 2018
1.584
44
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Prison Architect
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Magicka 2
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Cities: Skylines
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Magicka
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Dungeonland
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
my problem with aow3 was that i would never build t1 units, they'd get outmatched very quickly and even the "good" ones were almost never worth building. there was effectively 2 t1s in aow3: your irregular (being the cheapest means of a city garrison to prevent your cities from getting sniped by crows) and your scouts. the starting army having more variety is fair (3 more potential units than in planetfall) but none of those units ever really factored into my larger gameplan beyond whatever value i could squeeze out of clearing with them before they inevitably dropped dead. in planetfall all the t1s (except arguably frenzied) are worth building and can factor into a longer term game plan, and that makes what happens in the early game much more interesting to me personally.

ultimately though, i cycle through different races pretty rapidly, and that keeps the early game feeling way more fresh than the aow3 early game ever did. 90% of aow3's racial units were extremely similar, so no matter which race i played as the first 15 turns played out very similarly, even if there was technically more variety within a given race. in planetfall, the units are so wildly different from race to race that the early game always feels fairly fresh unless i just slam pick the same race 8 times in a row or something.
 

Fluksen

Major
16 Badges
Apr 28, 2018
686
7
  • Magicka
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
There are quite a few things where I think AoW3 is still better than Planetfall (this gorgeous map when you zoom out, an underground layer...) But unit variety? I think Planetfall is an awesome improvement, especially from the vanilla AoW3. I'd argue that two Vanguard troopers with different mods easily have more differences than let's say an elven swordsmen and a draconian crusher. AoW3 impoved a lot over the years, if Planetfall is doing the same (and I'd say they are off to a pretty good start with the T-rex patch and hopefully the upcoming expansion) it's going to be an improvement in nearly every aspect imho and that is no easy feat because I love AoW3.
But yes the first 10 turns feel pretty similar every game, but how was that better in AoW3?
 

orangelex44

Colonel
82 Badges
Feb 29, 2012
1.111
8
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Magicka
  • King Arthur II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
So while I agree with some of the initial premise here, I disagree in the larger picture. AOW3 had more unit variety at the start within the race, but a lot less outside of it. Yes, you started with infantry/irregulars/archers/spears, but to a first approximation all of those units were just copies of each other from race to race. There weren't that many differences between Race A's infantry and Race B's infantry - it got better with the DLC races, and exterior factors came into play as well (racial governance boosts), but to a large degree you could just switch everything around and you'd barely notice. Planetfall took a different design path, and tried to make it so that every single unit had a unique niche. Obviously that doesn't quite hold, there are certainly archetypes, but for the most part I think they succeeded. However, that meant that they needed to put a lot more effort into each unit, which put a cap on how many total units they could design (although they still had more on offer in the base game then AOW3 did, even after the expansions IIRC). Simultaneously, they switched focus from secret tech (effectively AOW3 class) to race, which meant that they needed more high-tier choices - that meant some T1 units likely got chopped.

What does that imply? Well, if you switch between races a lot there's a ton more variance of play. However, if you mono-race the opposite happens; you start with the same mix of stuff every time, and your development path will be pretty similar. I don't think either choice is/was wrong here; I just think that Planetfall is a different game than AOW3, with new goals.
 
  • 1
Reactions: rhaak

Goemoe

Corporal
4 Badges
Jul 25, 2018
38
0
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
Funny how people fond of Planetfall argue with wrong facts about AoW3. There is nothing wrong with liking one game more than the other, but please stay to the truth. 2 out of 9 races have Tier 2 pikeman the rest has Tier 1 pikeman. Most races have 4 Tier 1 units (much more with certain mods, but that is a different topic). And many people still prefer AoW 3 over Planetfall which has - though still in development - nearly half the playerbase AoW3 has. As I looked two hours ago, 1209 people are playing AoW 3 and 606 do so with Planetfall.

I own both, played both and see very few things Planetfall does equally good than AoW3, but better? Well there is a reason many people prefer old over new sometimes and it is not the setting. I for one love sci-fi games. But this is not about which game is more fun. Everyone has to decide for herself. This is about staying to the truth while comparing games.

Btw: I play AoW3 every day for years now (PBEM with a friend) and I am eager in each game to see how it begins. Perhaps adding some more diversity at the start might help Planetfall too :)
 

NINJEW

Lt. General
30 Badges
Jul 25, 2018
1.584
44
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Prison Architect
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Magicka 2
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Cities: Skylines
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Magicka
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Dungeonland
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
aow3 was literally given out for free in the leadup to planetfall's release, trying to bring up player counts as some kind of slight against planetfall is not a terribly intelligent move
 

NINJEW

Lt. General
30 Badges
Jul 25, 2018
1.584
44
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Prison Architect
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Magicka 2
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Cities: Skylines
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Magicka
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Dungeonland
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
Funny how people fond of Planetfall argue with wrong facts about AoW3. There is nothing wrong with liking one game more than the other, but please stay to the truth. 2 out of 9 races have Tier 2 pikeman the rest has Tier 1 pikeman. Most races have 4 Tier 1 units (much more with certain mods, but that is a different topic). And many people still prefer AoW 3 over Planetfall which has - though still in development - nearly half the playerbase AoW3 has. As I looked two hours ago, 1209 people are playing AoW 3 and 606 do so with Planetfall.

I own both, played both and see very few things Planetfall does equally good than AoW3, but better? Well there is a reason many people prefer old over new sometimes and it is not the setting. I for one love sci-fi games. But this is not about which game is more fun. Everyone has to decide for herself. This is about staying to the truth while comparing games.

Btw: I play AoW3 every day for years now (PBEM with a friend) and I am eager in each game to see how it begins. Perhaps adding some more diversity at the start might help Planetfall too :)
what i don't understand is that this does not counter literally any of the arguments that have been brought up in this thread, but the tone of it reads like it's some kind of masterstroke conversation ender
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: C_Hyett2k