Why isn't Zeeland like Venice? Blockable by a navy? Making HT, why not change that?

[Junuxx]

Agreed.

I brought up the Zuiderzee because I saw a painting of the battle of the Zuiderzee yesterday, Dutch rebels vs. the Spanish navy. There were a lot of galleys on the Dutch side, which got me thinking.

edit: it was a decisive Dutch victory

 

[nestorius]

Yep, about half the depth. But both are oceanic in places - it's all a matter of placing the sea zones right, and giving the zones the correct label, so to speak.

Isn't the difference meant to be with regard to the use of gallys? Due to worse weather conditions the north sea is ocean while the calmer med is coastel? I dont really think the water depth should matter so much, but rather the surface conditions.

 

[Lubricus]

Even so, it shouldn't be hard to use galleys in the coastal regions outside France and the Low Countries, and especially in Zuiderzee.

 

[nestorius]

Its still possible to use gallys just they will have a penalty due to the weather etc.

 

[Lubricus]

I know. My point is that some of the North Sea zones might be changed to remove this penalty, since the English Channel and Zuiderzee, at least, would not be detrimental to galley use. But it isn't very important.

 

[Junuxx]

Isn't the difference meant to be with regard to the use of gallys? Due to worse weather conditions the north sea is ocean while the calmer med is coastel? I dont really think the water depth should matter so much, but rather the surface conditions.

Well, if the Odyssey bears any semblance to truth..

 

[Niptium]

Stay on topic guys please : Zeeland needs to have its pathfinding modified in HT to resemble Venice.

 

[Gorgo Primus]

Gorgo Primus, You can't be a pagan communist. paganism is a religious belief and communists are atheist. You just like the ideas of these concepts.

I am A Poly-Deist. Pagan is the Vicky equivalent. There is nothing in Marxism that says one can not believe in a god; just that one must accept that it is a nonsense belief that must eventually be done away with. I have no problem with this.

You should avoid telling people what they believe or don't understand without having ever talked to them.

 

[unmerged(20077)]

I think there's a case for making Zeeland and Holland together into an island, since in the EU3 era, the Haarlemermeer and Leidschermeer arguably cut off Holland from Utrecht...

 

[Nassau]

So Zeeland should be in the same situation as Venice? You do know that the waters around Zeeland are not very deep. Zeeland should get a defence bonus, but an attacker shouldn't be able to blockade the province. Ships from the enemy fleet simple wouldn't be able to cut off Zeeland from the rest of the world. It's coastline is too big, the waters around Zeeland are too shallow. Cannons could easily destroy the blockading fleet, and small ships owned by Zeeland could out manouver the enemy.

However, if you control the land around Zeeland, only then you should be able to blockade the province.

Zeeland should get a defence bonus though, even if you invaded Zeeland, you still would have to conquer every island, and each island would require a new invation.

Holland should get a defence bonus to, but don't they already have better fortresses?

 

[Niptium]

Yes they are shallow but still deep enough for a fleet to block any army from attacking. The simple fact is that an army cannot invade the province without ships. It's like Venice really.

So Zeeland should be in the same situation as Venice? You do know that the waters around Zeeland are not very deep. Zeeland should get a defence bonus, but an attacker shouldn't be able to blockade the province. Ships from the enemy fleet simple wouldn't be able to cut off Zeeland from the rest of the world. It's coastline is too big, the waters around Zeeland are too shallow. Cannons could easily destroy the blockading fleet, and small ships owned by Zeeland could out manouver the enemy.

However, if you control the land around Zeeland, only then you should be able to blockade the province.

Zeeland should get a defence bonus though, even if you invaded Zeeland, you still would have to conquer every island, and each island would require a new invation.

Holland should get a defence bonus to, but don't they already have better fortresses?

 

[Nassau]

Yes they are shallow but still deep enough for a fleet to block any army from attacking. The simple fact is that an army cannot invade the province without ships. It's like Venice really.

You need ships to invade, that true. But a blockade would require many smal ships. The people in Zeeland could simply cross the water in a small boat and get suplies to Zeeland. An enemy fleet couldn't stop that.

 

[Niptium]

You need ships to invade, that true. But a blockade would require many smal ships. The people in Zeeland could simply cross the water in a small boat and get suplies to Zeeland. An enemy fleet couldn't stop that.

We are talking about armies. Not people, civilians. Take the Franco-Dutch War or the Revolutionary War. The French couldn't invade Zeeland because they couldnt get naval supremacy on these coasts. And besides what's the difference with Venice ingame and in real life?

 

[Mattabesta]

There is nothing in Marxism that says one can not believe in a god

there is, a lot, it's like oneof the foundatins of communism,
kral marx said: "religion is the opium of the masses"

 

[Gorgo Primus]

You are the one who seems to lack understanding of the dialectics.

He said "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.".

I don't think you understand what he meant by that.

 

[Nassau]

We are talking about armies. Not people, civilians. Take the Franco-Dutch War or the Revolutionary War. The French couldn't invade Zeeland because they couldnt get naval supremacy on these coasts. And besides what's the difference with Venice ingame and in real life?

What I am trying to say is, when you own Zeeland and have an army there, and lets say England blockades Zeeland, you should still be able to move your army to lets say Holland. An enemy fleet can not prevent an army from crossing.

But because it are islands Zeeland should get a defence bonus, simply because it is more difficult to conquer and easier to defend.

 

[Niptium]

What I am trying to say is, when you own Zeeland and have an army there, and lets say England blockades Zeeland, you should still be able to move your army to lets say Holland. An enemy fleet can not prevent an army from crossing.

But because it are islands Zeeland should get a defence bonus, simply because it is more difficult to conquer and easier to defend.

Than what about Venice. Venice is, geographically, under the sameconditions as Zeeland. Do you preconize Venice as NOT an island?

I think you are wrong.

 

[Nassau]

Than what about Venice. Venice is, geographically, under the sameconditions as Zeeland. Do you preconize Venice as NOT an island?

I think you are wrong.

Instead of comparing it to Venice, you could also use arguments to proof your point.

 

[Niptium]

Instead of comparing it to Venice, you could also use arguments to proof your point.

I did. Way up there. You also have to compare to Venice's situation because it's also a game's discussion. If you think Zeeland's status should be changed according to your beliefs, then Venice should also be changed in the exact same manner because their situation are the same. I stand by the majority's side. You are the only one not agreeing with this.

 

[Nassau]

I know the situation of Zeeland, and don't know the exact situation of Venice. I do know Venice is a large trading city. I couldn't find an old map of Venice, I don't know how deep the waters around Venice are. I do, however, know how deep the waters around Zeeland are.

Both Venice and Zeeland are land, and both are surrounded by water. That doens't mean that they are in the same situation.

And your arguments are poor. Really poor. You are clearly not an expert, all you can say is " I stand by the majority's side. You are the only one not agreeing with this.".

Maybe Zeeland looks the same to you when you watch a map, but have you ever been there?