WHY is there NO Slovenian culture?

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Mister X

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Let's pull a neutral solution: Split the region in linguistic lines. I'm not talking about the modern "languages", but what are called dialects instead. Dalmatia, Lika and Istria should be Croatian, as Chakavian is spoken there. North Croatia should be Slovene, because Kajkavian is basically Slovene no matter what the udba governmet tells you

The rest are shtokavians and pretty much Serbs
 

Warial

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Let's pull a neutral solution: Split the region in linguistic lines. I'm not talking about the modern "languages", but what are called dialects instead. Dalmatia, Lika and Istria should be Croatian, as Chakavian is spoken there. North Croatia should be Slovene, because Kajkavian is basically Slovene no matter what the udba governmet tells you

The rest are shtokavians and pretty much Serbs
Dialects are not important as no Slavic ethnicity in Balkans was delineated by them.
 

checro

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Let's pull a neutral solution: Split the region in linguistic lines. I'm not talking about the modern "languages", but what are called dialects instead. Dalmatia, Lika and Istria should be Croatian, as Chakavian is spoken there. North Croatia should be Slovene, because Kajkavian is basically Slovene no matter what the udba governmet tells you

The rest are shtokavians and pretty much Serbs

You mean Ragusan, don't you? So, it's all Ragusa :p

(well, not all, Bulgaria is there somewhere around autobusnata stanica u Pirot..)
 

Bibor

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I live across the border (Croatia) and to be honest, in the EU4 time period, I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between South German, North Italian, Slovene, Coastal Croatian cultures, just as I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between South Hungarian, Northern Serbian and continental Croatian. Remember, in EU4, culture =/= language.

Historical Poland and the Balkans share a common feature - everybody else acted like they own the place and had no issues razing everything to the ground if it pleased the emperors in <insert the name of a very important capital here>. So apologies if we are a bit twitchy about religious/cultural/economic/political identities in the last two centuries century, but we were busy from not getting wiped out in the EU4 timeframe.

If Austrians have a culture, so should Slovenes. So what if it's one or two provinces? It literally takes 30 seconds to type in a new name into the game database and add it to a culture group.

To be fair, this also raises another question which is culture group. I'd say the best way would be to have certain cultures be accepted in multiple culture groups. Slovene is case in point, it should be "accepted" by German, Italian and South Slavic culture groups at the same time. Except if my Slovenian friends object to this :) If I'd have to choose, I'd say South Slavic would be the logical choice.

As mentioned before, EU4 culture is not the same as language. The Balkans, believe it or not, in the EU4 timeframe were a multi-ethnic community with significant influx from other parts of Europe. Unlike in "developed very important Western European nations", people in these parts were forced to speak several languages, at the minimum the language of their own "tribe" and that of their overlords. Which, for a typical Croatian (noble), meant speaking Latin, German, Hungarian, Croatian and Italian, at the very least. This also meant that culture was a mix of most european cultures, plus that of the orient (Turkish and Persian at minimum) coming from the Orient.

To conclude, as everyone was so busy razing everything every 10 years, yeah, the EU4 development level of the Balkans is about right. That doesn't mean that people living here in that period don't deserve the same cultural recognition as the most developed ones, especially since technically it was more vibrant and diverse (and still is) than we get credit for.
 
Last edited:

kgmi

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I am all for more cultures, and if gothic culture exist why not Slovenian culture too? While we are at it, we can bring Hessian culture back. This whole "Rhenish" culture just triggers me everytime I see it.
 

celethiel

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Honestly I'd agree there should be Slovene Culture... And according the current and most modern way that cultures work in this game. Austria could easily choose to accept it or have it accepted at game start. (i am Not Balkan, but an American who "supposidly" is 1/4th Austrian... us americans, all Mongrels :p ) I'd honestly also like to see a revamp of Austria as well, or even how the HRE works a bit.... Austria is the Largest Block Party in the HRE, not counting Bohemia... and could have several Princes created within it. Whether they're released as part of the HRE at game start as Austrian Vassals or already integrated, would be better than Styria and Tyrol and that is it... speaking of that... Why doesnt Sungdau have a releasable nation Other than Styria... seems... odd
 

otaats

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I don't see why wouldn't the Carantanian culture be added. If it's one province, so be it. It can be an accepted culture in Austria (not that they have an overly multiethnic thing going on in the game). I am not aware of a Slovenian medieval state, though. So, what about releasable tags?
 

DanubianCossak

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otaats

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Rubidium

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So, what exactly does this add to the game? Immersion may be important, but it's not the only thing that is. Austria may accept it, but only until it ends up controlling enough other-cultured land that using an accepted culture slot on a single province (or maybe two if you split provinces appropriately) isn't worth it (something that's likely to happen soon if AI Austria is even marginally successful, much less a player). Austria is already on the weaker side as far as majors go, no need to nerf it more.

I also agree on the need not to project modern nationalism into the distant past, especially in a place like the Balkans that underwent so much political change and turmoil both during the period and since. If Slovenians were largely loyal supporters of the Habsburg monarchy throughout the time period (as they seem to have largely been, unlike the Czechs/Hungarians/etc.), there's no great need to make them a separate culture from Austria as a whole. Leave the Springtime of Nations and resultant national awakenings for Victoria III, where they absolutely would be appropriate.
 

Rikissa

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I would personally include it for the reason that it gave rise to a modern nation state. Culture in the game is very much based on delineations which took place in the 19th and 20th century, otherwise you could also make an argument that Czech for example belongs with the various German cultures.

I don't know if it has already been mentioned, but allegedly the Slovene lands supported a rebellion of over 80,000 people in the early 16th century. Granted, this was mostly a peasant's revolt und there might have been a large number of German-speaking peasants involved, but the fact that the first Slovene words were printed in the context of this rebellion and that the rebels were known as "Windische" (= Slovenes) still gives this rebellion a somewhat ethnical character.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovene_Peasant_Revolt

Most cultures in the game fail to trigger such massive rebellions, even in the very late game.
 

bosniandragon

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I was waiting for Paradox to implement Bosnian culture for years, but I gave up with waiting and made my own mod with Bogomilist religion, Bosnian culture, added a few provinces historically present in Bosnian kingdom during 15th century, added a few flavor events and decisions and now I'm enjoying the Balkans much more.

My advice, don't wait for anyone, make your own mod (or if you're not proficient in modding, request one of the modders to do it for you).
 

WeissRaben

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The problem with Trieste and Gorizia is that they were overwhelmingly Italian (or Friulan, to be precise), and they were large and important cities; but the countryland was mostly Slovene. How do you divide that? Most buildings refer (presumably) to the provincial capital, as do many an event. Unless the Urban/Rural divide gets a nod in a future patch, in some way, the question remains thorny; and Slovenian remains a one-province culture.
 

seriousgigi

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damn pdx just add some bosnians and slovenians to the game then let us read a lot more fun threads here. you added fake slovakian culture to the game right? then why wouldn't slovenians or bosnians also in it? :D

Dont let Slovenes and Croats hear you call them being from the Balkans. They are Central Europe or somesuch now :D
lmao
 

ᛒᛖᚱᛋᛖᚱᚲ

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Some things are about them are simple, and some things are not simple.
Modern Macedonians are definitely, most certainly, not ancient Macedonians.
They are definitely, most certainly Slavs.
Now what they are within Slav sub group, is much harder to tell...

Sounds like they just need to break the country up. Who should get the bigger slice and why?