Why is there no Rollo/Normandy bookmark?

[RhaegarTelcontarTargaryen]

This discussion gave me an idea, that it would be cool, if you could actually play as an adventurer. Something to suggestion to Paradox for CK III.

 

[zijistark]

This discussion gave me an idea, that it would be cool, if you could actually play as an adventurer. Something to suggestion to Paradox for CK III.

There are mods that do this. I've never tried one, but it's not actually a big technical hurdle to make adventurers playable-- the whole mod kinda has to be about it, though.

Please let this thread die, though.

 

[Rikashey]

There are mods that do this. I've never tried one, but it's not actually a big technical hurdle to make adventurers playable-- the whole mod kinda has to be about it, though.

Please let this thread die, though.

I would at least like if my question was answered first...

 

[elvain]

I would at least like if my question was answered first...

Do some search on the modding forum. You were already directed to a certain way. Search for a mod which lets you play adventurers. Or ask in general modding questions.

If you havent noticed, these guys don't know and don't care. They gave you their arguments for their stance and you still insist on your demands despite being told that it won't happen, and you repeat yourself and repeat yourself and repeat yourself and repeat yourself and repeat yourself and repeat yourself so there's no wonder they're not very eager to give you a hand anymore.

 

[gorillacakes]

There is no 876 Siege of Paris by Rollo and the Normans for a claim on Normandy?

You can edit the history files and add a claim d_normandy to him. That way there might be a chance that he becomes an adventurer, though I don't know how ecxactly that is triggered or what prequisites have to be. Then you can either console command switch to him or select him from the save menu if he is victorious.

But the long and short of it all comes down to the fact that the source material is not conductive in our opinion to creating a bookmark that we will end up being satisfied enough with to make us want to spend the considerable amount of time required to make it

We would have to resort to an uncomfortable amount of placeholders for to much of the map and when we finally have a top liege to use for an area, we would be unable to find any vassals for him

Whatever happened to those guys who were organising to create a Charlemagne start date sub mod? They appear to have drifted quietly into the night.

There are mods that do this. I've never tried one, but it's not actually a big technical hurdle to make adventurers playable

I didn't know that mods had been made for vanilla. I knew the GOT guys had made a Dany adventurer playable. Must have a look out.

As the lifecycle of the game draws to a close I think Paradox should make adventurers playable. Holding a Duchy title but with a "holding" in the abstract form of a warband which could be upgraded using prestige might seem plausible. The "holding" would function in the same way the palace in the Republic does. On the load screen a list of active adventurers could again be visible in the same way republics are displayed.

Personally I don't care to play as them so much but I want modders to have the mechanics available to them to keep the vibrant modding community going until we get CK3. I mean, the only time I play vanilla is when DLC drops and I have to wait for the HIP to update. But I like that fact that DLC offers building blocks for great new ideas from modders. That's the only reason I buy them.

 

[zijistark]

You can edit the history files and add a claim d_normandy to him. That way there might be a chance that he becomes an adventurer, though I don't know how ecxactly that is triggered or what prequisites have to be. Then you can either console command switch to him or select him from the save menu if he is victorious.

As mentioned previously in this thread, there is already a very complete and robust historical event chain for Rollo and the Normans. No need to add claims to anyone or leave it up to chance (though it's possible Rollo will fail).

This guy doesn't want that; he wants to be Rollo, instantly, I guess, and he thinks he's entitled to us telling him exactly how to do it; meanwhile, I'm not even sure it's possible to make prepared invasions work the way he wants let alone do any of us have the time to teach him.

 

[DC123456789]

Personally I don't care to play as them so much but I want modders to have the mechanics available to them to keep the vibrant modding community going until we get CK3. I mean, the only time I play vanilla is when DLC drops and I have to wait for the HIP to update. But I like that fact that DLC offers building blocks for great new ideas from modders. That's the only reason I buy them.

As a matter of fact you don't even need a holding to be playable, all you need is to hold a title) (and not a mercenary, holy order, theocracy, etc.) If you only hold a titular title you need to be a vassal in order to be selected from the starting screen though, so really all you need to do is make a titular count title for him and make him a vassal of Holland (that is where he starts, right?), and then adjust the event/cb so that it'll still trigger for the historical Rollo if he's a ruler but not landed.

 

[gorillacakes]

As mentioned previously in this thread, there is already a very complete and robust historical event chain for Rollo and the Normans. No need to add claims to anyone or leave it up to chance (though it's possible Rollo will fail).

This guy doesn't want that; he wants to be Rollo, instantly, I guess, and he thinks he's entitled to us telling him exactly how to do it; meanwhile, I'm not even sure it's possible to make prepared invasions work the way he wants let alone do any of us have the time to teach him.

Sorry I didn't see the rest of the thread. I just suggested what I did for vanilla when the DLC first dropped. You're right on the prepared invasions. PDX needs to jig things around to allow modders to get to work. Henrik had previously been pretty adament that's not going to happen.

As a matter of fact you don't even need a holding to be playable, all you need is to hold a title) (and not a mercenary, holy order, theocracy, etc.) If you only hold a titular title you need to be a vassal in order to be selected from the starting screen though, so really all you need to do is make a titular count title for him and make him a vassal of Holland (that is where he starts, right?), and then adjust the event/cb so that it'll still trigger for the historical Rollo if he's a ruler but not landed.

Interesting. I tried that once about 2 years ago but couldn't get it to work. Actually I was creating a mod for "Historically improved Shia" with the hope of passing it onto the SWMHM guys if they wanted to tinker with it. In the end they added their own Shia religious system and the history files for the Shia we have now and it's so damn good. But the unlanded titular titles always annoyed me.

 

[Truenova]

Can't you just take occupied areas in prepared invasions, so just invade Aquitaine and take Normandy by occupying it . And with a custom Norse guy named rolo using the dynasty trait to link to his family.

Side note instead of mod Dev's doing one odd bookmark only one guy wants, would rather they added all of India like vanilla or the 767 Charlemagne bookmark from vanilla. Would be easier since paradox already created it.

But really prefer they just get compatible for reapers due lol. Missing swmh map but loving dlc too much to revert to old version. No rush though, understand it takes time.

 

[MyFaceBurns]

I do think there should be something in place to simulate what happened with the Vikings in Normandy. It is perhaps the most significant event in the scope of CK2 that never actually is covered or simulated whatsoever by the game.

 

[Ese Khan]

I do think there should be something in place to simulate what happened with the Vikings in Normandy. It is perhaps the most significant event in the scope of CK2 that never actually is covered or simulated whatsoever by the game.

There is already a chain for all of this. It is there for Rollo as a duchy adventurer, which players can't be - though if you switch to play as Rollo after he succeeds at his adventure, you'd get the events as you describe them.

But I am not adding a way for a player to somehow replicate that on their own. You wouldn't be an adventurer like Rollo - you'd be a ruler who would retain their lands back wherever they came from, and the only way to simulate being Rollo is to manually release your old land. At that point, why not just wait the 10-15 years after the Old Gods start to switch to Rollo? A bookmark would be better, yes, but the map simply doesn't have the history support between the Old Gods start and 1066 to do that, so it's not going to happen...and I am not doing the work to add it in otherwise. Not only am I not interested, I have a lot more important work on my plate, particularly right now with the whole compatch.

There is no need to keep asking.

 

[Rylock]

I love it when I can go back it time to accommodate suggestions.

 

[Barón Rojo]

The one that really needs an event about his conquest of Valencia is El Cid in the 1066 bookmark.

Another one about the taifas asking the help of Almoravids if Christians advance too much would be good too.

 

[theKing1988]

I don't agree with OP's demand for the new bookmark, but does that mean I believe like an ass and withhold the answer (and ignore the question's existence, to go even further)? Alas due to my lack of expertise I cannot help myself.

Lets try and keep this calm here, no need to agitate anyone anymore than they already are.

We have actually pointed out a pretty clear way for the OP to get as close as possible to the setup that he would like, all he have to do is let the very robust event chain we have put in place to simulate the conquests of Rollo in Northern France play out and then tag-switch to him. It will of course require him to play as someone else for 10-15 years, but that should be a small sacrifice to make, to get the gameplay opportunity that he apparently wants.

There's already an event for Rollo to appear and claim Normandy. Unless you're suggesting that I concoct a special CB for you to go and pre-empt that event yourself, I'd suggest you wait for Rollo to appear and then play him once he achieves victory -- or use one of the already-existing Norse CB's to acquire Normandy.

Because a chain for Rollo already exists, as an adventurer (which is how the Norse grab duchies, generally).

It really seems like you want to be an adventurer. Well, that's too bad -- that doesn't happen anywhere, and isn't about to happen here. I'm not about to add a CB for a foreign realm (and not an independent adventurer) to be able to grab Normandy, so you'll have to either use a Prepared Invasion (which has limits on how large the target realm can be, and targets a kingdom and not a duchy -- and I'm not about to change that) or one of the other Pagan CB's and make do. Or you can wait for Rollo to succeed at his invasion and then play as him. Or you can talk to the Pagan Improvement Project mod and see if they'll accommodate your wishes.

Those are your options.

There is already a chain for all of this. It is there for Rollo as a duchy adventurer, which players can't be - though if you switch to play as Rollo after he succeeds at his adventure, you'd get the events as you describe them.

But I am not adding a way for a player to somehow replicate that on their own. You wouldn't be an adventurer like Rollo - you'd be a ruler who would retain their lands back wherever they came from, and the only way to simulate being Rollo is to manually release your old land. At that point, why not just wait the 10-15 years after the Old Gods start to switch to Rollo?

But it seems like he keeps ignoring that part of our posts. We're not ignoring his question to alter the Prepared Invasion CB to be mean, we're ignoring it, because we feel like there is nothing left to say on this matter

 

[zijistark]

But it seems like he keeps ignoring that part of our posts. We're not ignoring his question to alter the Prepared Invasion CB to be mean, we're ignoring it, because we feel like there is nothing left to say on this matter

We're also ignoring it, as I stated earlier, because there is no simple answer at all to said questions about how the OP can mod this himself. We're not exactly compelled to give a complete brain dump to every idea that somebody has for changing the mod, esp. when we don't agree with it or it's an unsolved problem.

EDIT: It's like someone repeatedly, insistently demanding that you teach them Swahili RIGHT THEN or something when there may not even be a way to represent at all the thesis they want to write in Swahili (and furthermore you happen to disagree with their thesis pretty strongly). I mean, for crying out loud, we're in the middle of working our fingers to the bone on this compatch to get it out and do so w/ a very high level of quality for you guys right now, and NOW is when Swahili must be communicated by us for some reason.

EDIT2: FWIW, just because I'm kind and do consistently point people in the right direction re: attempts at modding what they want in the game (as I like to encourage tinkering and having fun), this is about the best answer I can even summon to this Question that's so imperative:

Since you specifically want Prepared Invasion to work at duke-tier, I don't know but don't think that it can be done (as mentioned previously), as unmodifiable hard-code governs that diplo-action entirely. However, I guess if I were trying to do this, I would start by trying to modify the prepared invasion CB ('viking_invasion' in common/cb_types/00_cb_types.txt) and see what happened.

When that probably didn't work, I'd probably resort to writing my own CB and my own complex mechanic to simulate the same 'inflow of adventurers joining your retinue' (matching event troops) along with some kind of title decision for initiating the preparation against the selected target title.

I'd follow-up with modifying all the already-great Rollo-related event chains and melting pots and such to be sure they were triggered by a conquest of Normandy by a Norsemen using all these new mechanics, and I'd add a mechanic to the CB for auto-forfeiting all of your old lands to neighboring rulers upon completion of the conquest of Rouen/Eu/NormanVexin.

See how that's not really helpful to the direct question being asked, though? That's why we haven't been bothering. But I'd like to see this obnoxious thread end, because it's full of confusion and wrong attitudes about the duties of the unpaid people bringing you content that you apparently like. It is approximately the worst way to go about encouraging us to do this kind of thing that you'd like in the future.

 

[Rylock]

Zijistark is nicer than I am. Personally, I have enough issues finding time to mod CK2 myself. When people ask me to teach them how to mod my mod, I ignore them unless it's something really simple - which this is not, as ziji pointed out, and quite frankly I rather resent people who feel entitled to my time. I did not learn how to mod CK2 by demanding people answer my questions. I learned by looking at the files and trying.

 

[2ndPorphyry]

I did not learn how to mod CK2 by demanding people answer my questions.

Also, as was mentioned above, there is a sub forum where one is free and expected to ask modding questions! Namely, the modding forum that this one is nested in. (Demands might get you ignored, however, because those're still rude anywhere.)

 

[RhaegarTelcontarTargaryen]

The one that really needs an event about his conquest of Valencia is El Cid in the 1066 bookmark.

Another one about the taifas asking the help of Almoravids if Christians advance too much would be good too.

This, this, so MUCH this!

From my simple point of view, the cause for this topic is simple - you can not play as adventurer in CK2.

And while it probably is (rather) easy to mod in titular title, and make adventurers playable, there are not many things you could do as one, except well.. invading. And while Invading is fun, doing it as an unlanded character is, well, the only thing that you can do with him, unless you HEAVILY mod the game. So I don't see a point in doing it.

As I said before, I think playable adventurers, would be AWESOME, but I think that idea and concept is past CK2, and should and could be implemented in CK3.

 

[Rikashey]

Look, I simply asked why there was no bookmark for one of the most important people/events during the middle ages and you told me why.

Like I said, if you don't want to do it then fine I understand.

Then I asked if you could simply point me in the direction so that I may do it myself. I didn't ask anyone to drop what they're doing and sit down and tutor me about how to mod. I asked if you could direct me to the file because I can explore into it myself from there.

Not really sure why you guys are looking at this thread as if I'm some kind of greedy kid that's having a tantrum. I had even stopped posting and you guys just keep on talking about it and reviving the thread even though you want it to die.

But anyways, I really appreciate your guys hard work and HIP is my favorite CK2 mod and I can't play without it. Thanks for all your hard work.

 

[zijistark]

Look, I simply asked why there was no bookmark for one of the most important people/events during the middle ages and you told me why.

Like I said, if you don't want to do it then fine I understand.

Then I asked if you could simply point me in the direction so that I may do it myself. I didn't ask anyone to drop what they're doing and sit down and tutor me about how to mod. I asked if you could direct me to the file because I can explore into it myself from there.

Not really sure why you guys are looking at this thread as if I'm some kind of greedy kid that's having a tantrum. I had even stopped posting and you guys just keep on talking about it and reviving the thread even though you want it to die.

But anyways, I really appreciate your guys hard work and HIP is my favorite CK2 mod and I can't play without it. Thanks for all your hard work.

Well, my apologies if there was some misunderstanding. Important to recognize that the folks who kept reviving the thread were not "us," though, but yeah, that's not your fault after a certain point there (nor are you blamed for that). Anyhow, I hope you find my extended answer to all of your questions helpful.