Why is the Fascist version of Turkey called the Neo-Ottoman Empire?

[Outsider1580]

Sad thing is that its completely wrong because the politicians and leaders of the "Neo-Ottoman Empire" hated the Ottoman Empire........

This seems to happen alot with the various different non-historical nations, but meh what can we do but mod.

 

[Kiyant]

Yeah, it's as wrong as a lot of other countries names, but Paradox decided to go Gameplay > History but I'm sure there will be mods for those who prefer historical / plausible names.

To be true, i cant see why a weird name like Neo-Ottoman Empire is such a gameplay name.......
Its just bizzare to see Nihal Atsiz as an advisor for the Neo-Ottoman Empire when his whole ideology was completely different.

 

[Kiyant]

This seems to happen alot with the various different non-historical nations, but meh what can we do but mod.

The problem is that Paradox invented a Nationalism that didnt exist at that time in Turkey with characters who were Turkic nationalists and dreamed of a Turkic union.

 

[-Hiki-]

This can also be in Turkey's national focus where Ottoman Revival leads to anti-Democracy route, giving you claims in the Middle East and the Balkans.

And Goal is Turan leads to anti-communist route and gives you claim in Central Asia,Azerbaijan etc.

This sounds a very nice unique path for Turkey as its own nation goals.

The Turan path leads to an alliance with the Axis block in an anti-comintern focus.
While the Islamist path leads to the creation of their own faction as the re-introduction of the Caliphate and the path to free all Islam under its wings.

Im all up for helping you guys realise this in a mod if you are up to it. It sounds very interesting.

 

[BRITISHGAMER]

Tbh, someone could just make historical accuracy mod for the politics aspect, could have flags in as well.

 

[jicker]

I think the player should be given the choice through event when Turkey goes fascist. Reinstate autocratic power of the Sultan, or a fascist state along Italian lines with the Turanist ideology as a basis.

The choice should also be more significant to your nation on who will like you and who will not. I think a Turanist Turkey would be more about "Turkey first" nationalist ideal that would put them directly against the Soviets, while the Ottoman revival route would allow more flexibility in who the Turks eventually support.

Yeah, this sounds good. Granted, it'd be a lot of work for something not a lot of people would use, but if there's a Turkey DLC…

 

[Elothan]

Tbh, someone could just make historical accuracy mod for the politics aspect, could have flags in as well.

Yeah, should not be to hard.

Anyone knows the facist and communist names for the nordic countries?

 

[BRITISHGAMER]

Yeah, should not be to hard.

Anyone knows the facist and communist names for the nordic countries?

Wont be hard to find i can imagine, i did a tonne of stuff for fascism in Europe for History and basically know the ideology and political system of it inside out in most European nations so i can certainly provide any info for a mod

 

[Elothan]

Wont be hard to find i can imagine, i did a tonne of stuff for fascism in Europe for History and basically know the ideology and political system of it inside out in most European nations so i can certainly provide any info for a mod

Oh, I am norwegian so I have fair bit of info about the name of the parties (here it was Nasjonal Samling), I just wondered what Paradox Called them. Having the Neo-Ottomans as a guidlines it could be anything from "Nationalist Insert_countryname" to "Empire of the moose"

 

[Kiyant]

Tbh, someone could just make historical accuracy mod for the politics aspect, could have flags in as well.

The question is who would make such a mod.

 

[seriousgigi]

btw here some pics of "el fascista turco": nihal atsız

all fascists are look like each other right?

 

[Hayro]

btw here some pics of "el fascista turco": nihal atsız

all fascists are look like each other right?

was going to post portraits of it
here is another photo of him during 1944s:

and portraits of another nationalist leader, Alparslan Türkeş (he was cadet/junior officer, founder of MHP, and there was allegations that him being a CIA agent to combat against communism iirc):

And last but not least heres a pic of an ex-Waffen SS (Türkistan Legion) and later became an CIA agent who bailed out Alparslan Türkeş and his collegues from death sentence, Ruzi Nazar:

 

[Kiyant]

btw here some pics of "el fascista turco": nihal atsız

all fascists are look like each other right?

For some reason every Nationalist had the same haircut in the past XD

 

[Ownage]

Aren't you able to choose your name of the Ideological nation? Or is that Faction names only?

 

[Kiyant]

Aren't you able to choose your name of the Ideological nation? Or is that Faction names only?

I dont think so.

 

[erdemug93]

Hello everyone,
I wish to contribute about Turkish politics at WW2. First of all, Neo-Ottoman Empire sounds like very "Erdoğan-esque" (I made it up ).

Part 1 (Mustafa Kemal and Kemalism)

It's very essential to understand the founding ideology of Modern Turkey and Mustafa Kemal. There are no historical records about Ottoman Revivalism at that time because of Mustafa Kemal himself. Kemalism tried to destroy everything about Empire or its fundamental ideologies. (Which are, Pan-Islamism, Pan-Turkism and Pan-Ottomanism.) We can easily say, there are no "main" faction in Turkish Republic that defends the Neo-Ottoman idea until the second half of 1950's. As for Pan-Turkism, Kemalist Revolution of Turkey tried to replace Islam with Turkish nationalism because Kemalist elite was positivist and they thought that Islam was a main obstacle to a modern European country which they were trying to establish. Kemalism has some similarity with fascism but differences with two ideologies are more than similarities. Let me explain Kemalism then.

Kemalism is a unique form of Turkish nationalism that formed around the founder of modern republic of Turkey, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. Kemalism has six main pillars. Which are, Republicanism (Monarchy no more!), Reformism (until become a modern and self-sufficient nation - like Liberal Europe), Statism (about economic policies - has similarities with Keynesian economy), Populism (claimed that there're no class struggle within Turkey - this was used for justifiy banning socialist/communist parties), Laicism (it's not similar with Secularism. When secularism means that religion and state are different branches. Laicite means state CONTROLS religion like French Revolution style which makes too much difficult to organised for Islamic reactionaries) and the last (but most decisive for Turkish politics) Nationalism.

Nationalism in Kemalism was ultranationalist and contains legalised funny historical statements (like Sun Language Theory - which claims that taking words from the other languages is legit because all the other languages come from Turkish anyway - bullshit of course!). Authoritarian regime, One State-One Party-One Leader mythos, denying class struggle are similarities between Kemalism and fascism, too. BUT, German national socialism and Italian fascism was elected within liberal democracies. Kemalism was a (we can say Jacobin?) movement led by small elite. People that formed ruling elite were mostly Ottoman officers. They saw what WW1 did their country. They didn't want to live those struggles again. So, they went through with isolationism and "peace at home" principle. They were not revanchists. (I will explain it on next part.)

I must say that Mustafa Kemal didn't want to memorialise as a dictator. He thought that he could "bring" enlightment to masses in Turkey with his rule. And he always wanted modern Turkish politics similar to American way. He tried to form two party regime twice, one of the parties of his ideal, defends state intervention economic politics, the other one is market liberal party. And I guess that Mustafa Kemal himself was defender of liberal economic policies (especially in his last years) unlike İsmet İnönü (which I will try to explain he and his rule on next part) - the lifelong defender of state interventionism.

OMG, I didn't plan to write that much and I know there are almost no relation between Neo-Ottoman conversation and this post but I thought maybe it will help people who have no idea about Turkish political history. I just wanted to say Neo-Ottoman is not the best name for fascist Turkey at WW2. Pan-Turkist Empire is better, I presume. Because at that time, main pro-Axis political power was Nationalists (Türk Ocakları maybe?), not Pan-Ottomanists. And nationalists were very welcomed and took places in government. After Stalingrad, ultranationalism in Turkey was illegalised.

Sorry for veeeery long post. But I will try to write about Turkish political history again.

P.S: "Turkey, A Modern History" by E.J. Zürcher is one of the main references of this post.

P.P.S: What is the name of Communist Turkey in HoiIV? I have very original ideas about that

 

[StrUN]

P.P.S: What is the name of Communist Turkey in HoiIV? I have very original ideas about that

It's the Turkish Socialist Republic.

 

[BRITISHGAMER]

Good name mod in the workshop now, fixes all of these name issues

 

[withche.07]

Neo-Ottoman Empire tag should return if Turkey can install Osmanoğlu dynasty back, similar to German Empire in new patch.

Fascist Turkey should be renamed Turanist Turkey or just Turan, as Nihal Atsız (included in game as fascist demagogue) hated Islam to guts, he was keep telling it is killing Turkish culture by Arabization so "return back to roots" shamanism (Tengri) was more favored by him.

A country which is ruled by Nihal Atsız's principals would NEVER call itself Neo-Ottoman Empire.

Note: Turkish Socialist Republic tag is okay.

 

[FrancescoT]

Necromancy is not allowed. A more than a month old thread should rest in peace.

Closed.