Why is the Fascist version of Turkey called the Neo-Ottoman Empire?

[Hayro]

Actually, wasn't there tons of whining back at the beginning of HOI3 because people couldn't restore the Ottoman Empire (among other defunct empires like Austria-Hungary)? That probably had something to do with it.

Then they should have made monarchist faction for countries that deposed its monarchs
Monarchist Faction should be in gray area and should be left for player's choice when it comes to go democratic monarchy(will much easier to join to allies) or fascist monarchy(much easier to join to axis)

 

[Kikaider]

Then they should have made monarchist faction for countries that deposed its monarchs
Monarchist Faction should be in gray area and should be left for player's choice when it comes to go democratic monarchy(will much easier to join to allies) or fascist monarchy(much easier to join to axis)

I think I get where your coming from, but i think wouldnt change anything versus what they actually did from an implementation point of you suggest if we want to stay in the realm of realism
1) the neutral faction is already supposed to represent less than perfect democracies / somewhat more (though not necessarily fully) autocratic societies/governments
2) the fascist ideology change in some nations is exactly what you describe, restoration of an absolute monarchy for many of the countries that had one, so that should be fine with your suggestion
3) however, agitators for democracy and communist revolutionaries themselves would never seek to restore a monarchy if they even ever had one to restore, but monarchies could transform to be more democratic from nuetral (like the UK did). So I'm not sure the "restore the monarchy as a democracy" faction is very realistic, do you have any historical reference of something like that happening? (weirder things have happened, so I am willing be surprised )

 

[SchwarzKatze]

2) the fascist ideology change in some nations is exactly what you describe, restoration of an absolute monarchy for many of the countries that had one, so that should be fine with your suggestion

Which Fascist organizations restored an absolute monarchy?

 

[Kikaider]

Which Fascist organizations restored an absolute monarchy?

Realistically, none. I'm just saying what they proposed is basically what the game (sorta) simulates for the restoration of the Neo-Ottoman Empire, and the suspension of disbelief needed for the tag/name change only really works for fascists, relatively speaking.

Basically, if you HAD to pick one ideology that's gonna restore a monarchy or old empire (for game play/flavor) would it be the democratic one, communist one or fascist one?

 

[SchwarzKatze]

Realistically, none. I'm just saying what they proposed is basically what the game (sorta) simulates for the restoration of the Neo-Ottoman Empire, and the suspension of disbelief needed for the tag/name change only really works for fascists, relatively speaking.

Basically, if you HAD to pick one ideology that's gonna restore a monarchy or old empire (for game play/flavor) would it be the democratic one, communist one or fascist one?

If it's the German Empire, the fascists maybe, but multi-ethnic ones like Austro-Hungary, Russia, Ottoman, and Qing? Fascism is out as fast as Communism.

 

[Kiyant]

The Fascism of the eraly Turkish republic was completely seperated from the Ottoman Empire and was full on the ideology of Turkism and Turanism.
Two names that could be used for a better representation would be Turkish Empire or Turan.
(Also Nihal Atsiz would be more suitable as the leader because his ideas and memory are still revered by many Nationalists)

 

[Kikaider]

The Fascism of the eraly Turkish republic was completely seperated from the Ottoman Empire and was full on the ideology of Turkism and Turanism.
Two names that could be used for a better representation would be Turkish Empire or Turan.
(Also Nihal Atsiz would be more suitable as the leader because his ideas and memory are still revered by many Nationalists)

You're right and i think that would fit better as well from all ive read by people proposing the change. But that wasnt the point of my posts. Just to clarify, I'm not trying to justify the choice of calling the fascist turkey the neo-Ottoman empire (which I believe was 100% because a chunk of forum goers wanted a way to restore it, like the Byzantium people), I'm just trying to explain the WHY behind the design decision since I could see why they chose that option (like how people think pounds is a weight when it's measure of force, doesn't make it right, but I can understand the thinking)

 

[Meanmanturbo]

Fun Fact: the grey wolves are the biggest fascist organisation in germany much bigger than the ethnic german fascist groups

Go green

(you would have to be Swedish to get it)

 

[Adonnus]

If Paradox wants some massive pre-release buzz they should call fascist Turkey "Erdoğan"!]

Having it like that would make Hoi4 a modern day simulator so I don't think they will

 

[Kiyant]

You're right and i think that would fit better as well from all ive read by people proposing the change. But that wasnt the point of my posts. Just to clarify, I'm not trying to justify the choice of calling the fascist turkey the neo-Ottoman empire (which I believe was 100% because a chunk of forum goers wanted a way to restore it, like the Byzantium people), I'm just trying to explain the WHY behind the design decision since I could see why they chose that option (like how people think pounds is a weight when it's measure of force, doesn't make it right, but I can understand the thinking)

Of course i can kinda understand the reasoning.
Its still not really ideal. (For example fascist Greece also doesnt become Byzantium)

 

[Kikaider]

Of course i can kinda understand the reasoning.
Its still not really ideal. (For example fascist Greece also doesnt become Byzantium)

And that is a missed opportunity in my opinion (unless they get named after Alexander the Great's empire, in which case it seems like an even trade)

 

[Kiyant]

And that is a missed opportunity in my opinion (unless they get named after Alexander the Great's empire, in which case it seems like an even trade)

For example for Greece it would make sense if they would become Byzantium when they become Fascist.
(Many Greek Nationalists dreamed of the "Megali Idea")

 

[Ctanr]

Go green

(you would have to be Swedish to get it)

yeah the biggest fascist kraut group is the NPD which is actually a mix between some really right wing conservatives and plain fascists and it has about 5000 Members

the grey wolves have 10.000 members here according to a german journal

 

[Kiyant]

yeah the biggest fascist kraut group is the NPD which is actually a mix between some really right wing conservatives and plain fascists and it has about 5000 Members

the grey wolves have 10.000 members here according to a german journal

To be true its kinda hard to define a Grey wolf for the simple fact that it isnt really an organisation.

 

[BRITISHGAMER]

The Fascist nation names do kinda annoy me ngl,
The Neo-Ottoman Empire? Free American Empire? Vichy France?

Sure, so i understand the concept. Fascists after all were a large variety of political ideologies, you may have Monarchists Fascists in Turkey, however the ottomans were a dynasty and as such it would surely just become the "Ottoman Empire" once again... In the US, American Nationalism was based around the idea of white nationalism and supremacy, they probably would not have changed their name at all, let alone to the "Free American Empire" that sounds like something from a fantasy cartoon. Vichy France also makes no sense as Vichy France was only called that because it was ruled by a Fascist Regime based in Vichy, thus the "Vichy Regime". Whereas if France were Fascist before the Germans turned up they probably would have just either stayed as France, or simply become something like the Bonapartist France, something to do with French Nationalism anyway.

The names are fine, just kinda historically odd and sound a tad gamey. Then again however, this is an Alternate History game

 

[Kiyant]

The Fascist nation names do kinda annoy me ngl,
The Neo-Ottoman Empire? Free American Empire? Vichy France?

Sure, so i understand the concept. Fascists after all were a large variety of political ideologies, you may have Monarchists Fascists in Turkey, however the ottomans were a dynasty and as such it would surely just become the "Ottoman Empire" once again... In the US, American Nationalism was based around the idea of white nationalism and supremacy, they probably would not have changed their name at all, let alone to the "Free American Empire" that sounds like something from a fantasy cartoon. Vichy France also makes no sense as Vichy France was only called that because it was ruled by a Fascist Regime based in Vichy, thus the "Vichy Regime". Whereas if France were Fascist before the Germans turned up they probably would have just either stayed as France, or simply become something like the Bonapartist France, something to do with French Nationalism anyway.

The names are fine, just kinda historically odd and sound a tad gamey. Then again however, this is an Alternate History game

Its just weird that they choose a name/fascist group that at this point of time were much weaker then another nationalist group.

 

[Kevonfor]

A lot of names aren't accurate, not only Neo-Ottoman Empire. The goal of those names is to make the player understand which ideology is ruling a certain country at the first glance. Neo-Ottoman Empire is easier to understand than Turan, just as French Commune is easily categorized as "Communist France". Doesn't mean it's right, but that's how Paradox decided to do it.

 

[Ottovski]

I am resisting to make a kebab joke so hard right now.

 

[Kiyant]

A lot of names aren't accurate, not only Neo-Ottoman Empire. The goal of those names is to make the player understand which ideology is ruling a certain country at the first glance. Neo-Ottoman Empire is easier to understand than Turan, just as French Commune is easily categorized as "Communist France". Doesn't mean it's right, but that's how Paradox decided to do it.

Sad thing is that its completely wrong because the politicians and leaders of the "Neo-Ottoman Empire" hated the Ottoman Empire........

 

[Kevonfor]

Sad thing is that its completely wrong because the politicians and leaders of the "Neo-Ottoman Empire" hated the Ottoman Empire........

Yeah, it's as wrong as a lot of other countries names, but Paradox decided to go Gameplay > History but I'm sure there will be mods for those who prefer historical / plausible names.