Why is the AI designed to run away and siege enemy while leaving home exposed?

[lonkeW]

Does this tactic even work AI against AI? Just attack and lose and call it a day its even historical the largest armies won. Make the game fairer in terms of troop numbers instead of this weirdness. More expensive wars, harsher attrition, something. The side with more troops will win anyways because once they siege the enemy they come back to back cap. Defend home if its a loss its a loss.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

Ai using this strat works against ai all the time
Siege racing is a valid strat for kazan vs muscovy
If you stackwipe then the ai spends that much more recovering from war

 

[Lykus Cerebros]

Does this tactic even work AI against AI? Just attack and lose and call it a day its even historical the largest armies won. Make the game fairer in terms of troop numbers instead of this weirdness. More expensive wars, harsher attrition, something. The side with more troops will win anyways because once they siege the enemy they come back to back cap. Defend home if its a loss its a loss.

1. Yes siege racing used to be the most efficient way to defeat larger AIs.
Not sure that will still be the case with the current increase in fort numbers though.

2. Higher attrition is not a good idea since the AI isn't capable enough to avoid it. In previous iterations it used up all its manpower in one war resulting in AIs collapsing very easily.

 

[grommile]

Just attack and lose

And get ripped to pieces by all your other neighbours now that your army is gone.

The AI believes in "army in being" doctrine.

 

[lonkeW]

so this ridiculous ping ponging is what we're left with? AI armies splitting into a million smaller stacks to cap fort-less provinces while I take a vacation on their lands increasing devastation because they wont relent only to then collapse to rebels? Sorry, but how stupid. Almost every complaint I read here boils down to AI is too stupid so this what we're left with.

 

[grommile]

so this ridiculous ping ponging is what we're left with?

One of the many problems is that the computer players are exactly as smart as each other.

If you can't operationally outsmart your opponent, siege racing is less likely to get you opportunistically dogpiled by the other AIs than a heroic last stand that destroys your army and/or depletes your manpower pool.

 

[necro84]

One of the many problems is that the computer players are exactly as smart as each other.

Except Burgundian AI declaring on Liege or Provance when it can't win

 

[grommile]

Except Burgundian AI declaring on Liege or Provance when it can't win

That was, in the end, explicitly identified as a bug with a clear and straightforward cause

 

[AvengedK1ng]

so this ridiculous ping ponging is what we're left with? AI armies splitting into a million smaller stacks to cap fort-less provinces while I take a vacation on their lands increasing devastation because they wont relent only to then collapse to rebels? Sorry, but how stupid. Almost every complaint I read here boils down to AI is too stupid so this what we're left with.

ai knows how to carpet siege? now thats an improvement

 

[AvengedK1ng]

Except Burgundian AI declaring on Liege or Provance when it can't win

charles the bold has the bold fighter personality, and ai still cant see austria's allies in the declare war screen

 

[Jespoke]

The AI's strategy on this patch, for both the stronger and weaker party in a war, seems to be to start from the back and then siege everything moving towards their border. Even in Russia. In my Bohemia vs Muscovy war, my AI allies went to siege Perm, while Muscovy focused on Bohemia proper even though Poland and Lithuania were under PU and so also in the war.

 

[Lykus Cerebros]

The AI's strategy on this patch, for both the stronger and weaker party in a war, seems to be to start from the back and then siege everything moving towards their border. Even in Russia. In my Bohemia vs Muscovy war, my AI allies went to siege Perm, while Muscovy focused on Bohemia proper even though Poland and Lithuania were under PU and so also in the war.

Not explaining the weird Perm behavior but isn't the AI always gunning for the weakest link in alliance chain. Sure that results in weird behavior but if they manage to peace in our it's pretty good.

 

[Jespoke]

Not explaining the weird Perm behavior but isn't the AI always gunning for the weakest link in alliance chain. Sure that results in weird behavior but if they manage to peace in our it's pretty good.

Perm is a vassal of Muscovy, and they hadn't been released. And the behavior was also similar in the next war, in which Perm had been integrated.

 

[EarlKonrad]

And get ripped to pieces by all your other neighbours now that your army is gone.

The AI believes in "army in being" doctrine.

I'm not sure about that. It wasn't always the case that the AI wouldn't engage or siege race.

And Revanchism exists to stop make it harder for nations to get into a death spiral, and it does accomplish its job when the player isn't involved.

 

[grommile]

And Revanchism exists to stop make it harder for nations to get into a death spiral, and it does accomplish its job when the player isn't involved.

Revanchism only kicks in once you've actually signed a peace treaty.

If the piranhas have started occupying you by then, it doesn't help much.

 

[cuendillar]

This matter really boils down to a single question - what's the best strategy when forced into war against a militarily superior enemy? The damage control approach of keeping the army alive isn't that stupid, and really only leaves two options - run away with it or countersiege enemy territory and hope their rivals jump them when their WE is high. This is pretty much the behaviour seen from the AI.

Big countries can definitely come back from lost wars, especially if the economy and army recover reasonably fast.

 

[DeadEyeTucker]

AI armies splitting into a million smaller stacks to cap fort-less provinces while I take a vacation on their lands increasing devastation because they wont relent only to then collapse to rebels? Sorry, but how stupid.

So instead you want to fight hopelessly against you, lose their army and all their manpower AND THEN you'll occupy and devastate all their lands so they can collapse to rebels after?

Sorry, but how stupid.

 

[Gijahr]

The way AI fights wars really ruins the late game for me especially if you're a large country like Russia. Even if the fight is even, unless they have overwhelming numbers they'll just run across the world to start sieging you in Siberia without a worry in the world while you siege down their homeland where presumably all their families live without even making an attempt to defend.

It just makes absolutely no sense how these armies could sustain themselves in the frozen wastelands of Siberia after traveling halfway around the world through hostile territory and as soon as you walk over to fight them you can be sure that they'll sense you coming and begin their next marathon to head back home or to whatever one province hole you've got somewhere, there's just no strategic value in it at all for them - it doesn't matter if they occupy a bunch of wastelands at the far extremities of my land if they lose their entire country. Late game wars just feel like playing chase rather than fighting a war

the AI should fight hopelessly against you, it should do whatever is necessary to defend it's home and allied territory. It's playstyle is so predictable that you can sometimes just conquer entire territories without a single fight because the AI is so desperate to avoid battle

 

[Ferdinand_Bardamu]

I think the game would get a lot harder in a smart way if the AI fought wars more defensively.

Can you imagine how much more costly and hard war would be if the AI parked itself on defensive terrain? You'd have to plan your military movements and engagements much better.

I'd be a huge fan of this change.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Fighting back inflicts more damage/casualties than getting baited into running around a lot.

If you want to provide disincentive wrt being attacked, that sounds more attractive than losing land w/o contesting it.