Why is the Administrator Trait so Hard to Get?

[Arrnea]

I've made a formal Suggestion thread about this here:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/buff-rebalance-rulership-focus.1177280/

 

[Crimson Grog]

Don't nail me on the exact developement history of rulership focus, but the problem outlined in the calculation is not as much caused by a nerf, but by the simple fact that the amount of events with higher weighting was massively increased with follow-up dlc's and patches, and thus makes rulership events less likely to trigger than they might have in the original WoL-patch game version.

I've tried a bit in practice recently (That agree-hook under DPS' post is from me), and on a douzen rulers with in some cases long reigns, totalling to over 1000 years, I got exactly one event for upgrading stewardship education (granted, I had not many steward mains), two stewardship-bonus-events from rulership (those we are aiming for), and once I got ambitious after 28 years of nonstop rulership focus and nothing else triggering, only to have it removed the very day after due to me "becoming a better christian" as member of the Order of St. Benedict right away overwriting my ambitions.
Praise Jesus.

Thank you, I've been suspecting something like this was occurring but I never took the time to understand the code enough myself. I remember pre-M&M the rulership events would fire a decent amount, especially if you had several direct vassals of count or higher (settle vassal dispute event). Even if I never got Administrator it was still useful to remove Arbitrary and Slothful. However, after M&M+JD+HF I never see any rulership events other than stressed/depressed, to the point where I would only choose rulership if I specifically wanted my character to die.

 

[knppel]

Yup, as mentioned I've not looked it up in all detail, but before societies it could have worked on a regular base indeed, and going by vague impression of how the game played, it did- at least back in 2016 I had not the impression focus on ruling almost exclusively made my characters stressed and depressed. And that we had no threads like this back then indicates it's not only me having it experienced like that.

I couldn't give detailed suggestions on what values to fix, though- For that we'll first have to look in detail which events exactly overwrite the potential for rulership lifestyle events to trigger. Societies were mentioned, but given we had roughly half a douzen content patches and -dlc's since WoL it might be a whole lot.
To decide an appropriate weighting in balance, we'd have to check that.

 

[eastcoastceojam]

I've been working on getting the Administrator trait and making slow progress. The issue is getting the Rulership events to fire more frequently. I've excerpted some of the event code below and was hoping to get confirmation that I'm reading it correctly.

First, a little background. Here is my lovely Matilda of Italy, who became Immortal at 27. She is now 112, and has been on the Rulership Focus for 32 years. I would have switched to rulership earlier, but I spent ~50 years on the Family and Theology to make babies and then get rid of Lunatic/Pox!

I'm working on the Survivor, Iron Crown, Black Bishop, and Wise Guy achievements on the same save, so I've got time to experiment.

The main Rulership focus "level up" event is WoL.12500, which seems to fire after you pass judgment on a peasant, intervene with angry/drunken vassals, or build a castle:

# Rulership Level Up
character_event = {
    id = WoL.12500
    hide_window = yes
 
    is_triggered_only = yes
 
    immediate = {
        if = {
            limit = {
                OR = {
                    trait = indulgent_wastrel
                    trait = thrifty_clerk
                    trait = fortune_builder
                }
                random = 85
            }
            character_event = { id = WoL.12501 }
        }
        if = {
            limit = {
                NOT = {
                    AND = {
                        NOT = { religion = jain }
                        trait = administrator
                    }
                }
                NOT = { has_character_modifier = wol_raja_dharma }
                random = 85
            }
            character_event = { id = WoL.12502 }
        }
        if = {
            limit = {
                NOT = { trait = just }
                random = 85
            }
            character_event = { id = WoL.12503 }
        }
        if = {
            limit = {
                NOT = { trait = diligent }
                random = 85
            }
            character_event = { id = WoL.12504 }
        }
        if = {
            limit = {
                NOT = { trait = ambitious }
                random = 85
            }
            character_event = { id = WoL.12505 }
        }
    }
}

This code seems to have five equally weighted outcomes:

• WoL.12501 event - levels up your stewardship education (not relevant for Matilda's Diplomacy education)
• WoL.12502 event - levels up your Stewardship modifier, eventually giving the Administrator lifestyle trait
• WoL.12503 event - removes Arbitrary and/or adds Just
• WoL.12504 event - removes Slothful and/or adds Diligent
• WoL.12505 event - removes Content and/or adds Ambitious

Here are the details behind the event that will eventually give the Administrator lifestyle trait, after it fires for the 3rd time:

# Administrator Level Up
character_event = {
    id = WoL.12502
    desc = EVTDESC_WoL_12502
    picture = GFX_evt_relaxed_ruler
    border = GFX_event_normal_frame_economy
 
    is_triggered_only = yes
 
    hide_from = yes
    hide_new = yes

    trigger = {
        NOR = {
            AND = {
                lifestyle_traits = 1
                has_character_modifier = wol_steward_2
                NOT = { religion = jain }
            }
            has_character_modifier = wol_raja_dharma
        }
    }
 
    option = {
        name = EXCELLENT
        if = {
            limit = {
                NOT = {
                    has_character_modifier = wol_steward_1
                    has_character_modifier = wol_steward_2
                    trait = administrator
                }
            }
            add_character_modifier = {
                modifier = wol_steward_1
                duration = -1
            }
            break = yes
        }
        if = {
            limit = { has_character_modifier = wol_steward_1 }
            remove_character_modifier = wol_steward_1
            add_character_modifier = {
                modifier = wol_steward_2
                duration = -1
            }
            break = yes
        }
        if = {
            limit = {
                has_character_modifier = wol_steward_2
                NOT = { lifestyle_traits = 1 }
            }
            remove_character_modifier = wol_steward_2
            add_trait = administrator
            break = yes
        }
        if = {
            limit = {
                trait = administrator
                religion = jain
            }
            add_character_modifier = {
                modifier = wol_raja_dharma
                duration = -1
            }
            break = yes
        }
    }
}

In my 32 years of the Rulership focus, I only noticed the WoL.12500 event fire 3 times for this character: 1) Lost Arbitrary; 2) Gained Just; 3) Lost Content. Here are my questions:

• Does the code for event WoL.12500 always result in something noticeable?
  • Or can it fire and not choose any of the five child events (12501 - 12505)?
• Does having the desired traits (Ambitious, Just, Diligent) make it more likely that the Rulership "level up" event fires?
  • Matilda only lacks Ambitious, so I hope that 12502 is now more likely to happen.
• Is event 12502 blocked if you aren't Just, Ambitious, and Diligent?
  • Matilda has a lot of traits, so what if I lose Just before I get Ambitious? If true, this could explain why so few people get the "level up" modifiers, since you need to have all 3 traits, and then hold them until 12502 fires 3x times.

Thanks for reading everyone!

 

[Lycrist Katkiller]

@eastcoastceojam
1. yes, but no
WOL.12500 is not the year pulse event but the outcome of a yearly pulse (i at least think that's yearly pulse)

All rulership events may trigger the 12500 event but only with a 85% chance there will be a outcome (if there is no outcome you won't see the event happen)
All rulership events mean all events but getting stressed and depressed which is also an outcome of the yearly pulse. If I read the code correctly the chance to have an event is as high as getting a negative health traits (your ruler is depressed, so I assume she got it by the "can they ever shut up about their pigs"-event)

2. yes. if you got the traits which you could get with the rulership focus then the chance is higher to get the modifier up and ultimatively getting

3. only administrator (or being of jain religion) will block Wol.12502

The reason why only very few people are able to the administor is that the rulership focus is terrible:
There is only a low chance to have an yearly event (unlike war focus where you will have an event yearly)
The chance to have an negative event is equally high compared to the chances for a level up (namely getting stressed/depressed or being cheated on by the architect
The chance to have a level up after an event is high, but not 100%

Rulership focus is just terrible as it is - I usually never pick it because the only thing you get for sure is being killed. It's probably safer to pick war focus and get the duellist bloodline than to try to get administrator

 

[Karlington]

In my 32 years of the Rulership focus, I only noticed the WoL.12500 event fire 3 times for this character: 1) Lost Arbitrary; 2) Gained Just; 3) Lost Content. Here are my questions:

1. Does the code for event WoL.12500 always result in something noticeable? Or can it fire and not choose any of the five child events (12501 - 12505)?
2. Does having the desired traits (Ambitious, Just, Diligent) make it more likely that the Stewardship "level up" event fire? Matilda is now only lacking Ambitious, so I hope this means that 12502 is no more likely to happen.
3. Is event 12502 blocked if you aren't Just, Ambitious, and Diligent? Since Matilda has a lot of traits, I wonder what will happen if I randomly lose Just before I get Ambitious. If true, this could explain why so few people get the "level up" modifiers, since you need to have all 3 traits, and then hold them until 12502 fires 3x times.

Thanks for reading everyone!

1. No, it can fire without anything happening.
2. No, each one is checked individually without reference to the others, in the order education level-up, rulership level-up, Just, Diligent, Ambitious.
3. No, that does not block it.

Note that while the script could easily be read as having an 85% chance of firing the events in WoL.12500, this is incorrect. The actual chance of them firing is 15%. When a random { } block is set up and "chance" is used inside, it becomes the actual percentage (i.e. "chance = 85" inside the block would be 85% chance), but when random is used by itself inside a limit block then it works in reverse, so "random = 85" becomes 15%.

An example where the developers kindly provided a comment can be found in the Seduction level-up event:

        if = {
            limit = {
                NOT = { trait = chaste }
                NOT = { trait = lustful }
                random = 85 # 15% chance
            }
            add_trait = lustful
            character_event = { id = 38272 } # Lustful notification
        }

The rarity of the Rulership events have to do with the on_focus_pulse - The weights are:

        1000 = 0
        # Rulership Focus
        50 = WoL.12000 # The Architect
        50 = WoL.12010 # Depressed
        25 = WoL.12011 # Stressed
        50 = WoL.12027 # Farm Fire
        50 = WoL.12015 # The Murders
        50 = WoL.12028 # Witch!
        50 = WoL.12029 # Drunkard
        50 = WoL.12025 # Noble Feud
        25 = WoL.12030 # City brigands

...so the chance of no event is pretty high! And this is once per year. Then when you factor in that you only have a 15% chance of a rulership level-up each time (once every 6 or 7 times on average), it becomes apparent why advancing in this focus is such slow going.

(Most focuses and other ito events have a weight_multiplier that can increase the odds of events, but the Rulership events have none, making it impossible to better your odds. )

PS. A pro-tip for when you are posting code is to use [code ]<the code in question>[/code ] (while removing the space I put at the end of each tag, of course) as that keeps the formatting intact.

EDIT: You can indirectly increase the odds of the good events firing by being Stressed and/or Depressed, since that eliminates those events from consideration. But considering the small impact, it's probably not worth it to keep hanging on to those negative traits.

 

[JohnMK]

This system has needed renovation for years, instead we just see more DLC.

 

[eastcoastceojam]

The reason why only very few people are able to the administrator is that the rulership focus is terrible:
There is only a low chance to have a yearly event (unlike war focus where you will have an event yearly)
The chance to have a negative event is equally high compared to the chances for a level up (namely getting stressed/depressed or being cheated on by the architect
The chance to have a level up after an event is high, but not 100%

It's probably safer to pick war focus and get the duellist bloodline than to try to get administrator

Thanks for the comments. I have never tried to get Administrator with a normal character- just not worth the hassle, for the reasons you list. But given my Immortal status, and the need to burn several centuries to get the Lombard King and Survivor achievements, I want to stick it out with the Rulership focus and hope for the best.

I also like your idea of trying to use Immortal Matilda to get the Duelist bloodline achievement. I have a backup copy of this save from the moment she became Immortal, maybe I will give that a shot once this current run is over.

When a random { } block is set up and "chance" is used inside, it becomes the actual percentage (i.e. "chance = 85" inside the block would be 85% chance), but when random is used by itself inside a limit block then it works in reverse, so "random = 85" becomes 15%.

PS. A pro-tip for when you are posting code is to use [code ]<the code in question>[/code ] (while removing the space I put at the end of each tag, of course) as that keeps the formatting intact.

EDIT: You can indirectly increase the odds of the good events firing by being Stressed and/or Depressed, since that eliminates those events from consideration.

Thanks for the info, Karlington. It's nice to know that the infrequency of events isn't just bad luck, but by design. I will keep pushing on, and hopefully sometime soon be posting my pics of the Legendary Wisdom modifier.

PS- I used your advice on using code blocks instead of spoiler, and my earlier post looks much better. I never noticed before that spoiler strips out the formatting when it renders the post. Thanks again!

 

[Karlington]

Thanks for the info, Karlington. It's nice to know that the infrequency of events isn't just bad luck, but by design. I keep pushing on, and hopefully sometime soon be posting my pics of the Legendary Wisdom modifier.

PS- I used your advice on using code blocks instead of spoiler, and my earlier post looks much better. I never noticed before that spoiler strips out the formatting when it renders the post. Thanks again!

No problem, friend! As an aside I can mention that once you have Administrator you can go off the Rulership focus, as the Legendary Wisdom modifier is fired from the regular pulse and not connected to the focus.

Best of luck!

 

[eastcoastceojam]

Had the "pass judgment on a commoner" event fire two more times today, and finally got the Ambitious trait. Now the only thing WOL.12500 can choose is the Rulership "level up" event!

Also, maybe I'm the only idiot that didn't know this, but Focus events seem to fire more frequently if you limit your other activities. If you are constantly feasting, sponsoring summer fairs, swaying/antagonizing, last trimester of pregnancy, doing Monastic Society events, your character is considered "busy" and it limits those random pulse events.

Before this current focus, I was doing all that stuff for the first 30 years of my Theology focus, and the seclusion event never fired. After I stopped being such a busybody, I got multiple seclusion events and was cured of Lunatic, Great Pox, and Stressed/Depressed in ~5 years. Just wanted to pass that along in case it helps anyone.

 

[Karlington]

Also, maybe I'm the only idiot that didn't know this, but Focus events seem to fire more frequently if you limit your other activities. If you are constantly feasting, sponsoring summer fairs, swaying/antagonizing, last trimester of pregnancy, doing Monastic Society events, your character is considered "busy" and it limits those random pulse events.

Before this current focus, I was doing all that stuff for the first 30 years of my Theology focus, and the seclusion event never fired. After I stopped being such a busybody, I got multiple seclusion events and was cured of Lunatic, Great Pox, and Stressed/Depressed in ~5 years. Just wanted to pass that along in case it helps anyone.

Be careful when drawing generalizations. The Theology focus happens to be the one focus that has that kind of check on a host of its events, which explains your experience. But from what I can tell the only other focuses that really check for this are Intrigue and Seduction, while you are using their Spy On and Seduce actions.

(Search the wol_* files for "is_inaccessible_trigger" if you want to see. )

EDIT: I take back what I said! I looked into a it a bit further and there's a bunch of events on various focuses that check for the flag "do_not_disturb", which is set by both feasts and summer fairs. It does not seem to be set by swaying or antagonizing, though.

My apologizes, @eastcoastceojam - you were right.

 

[eastcoastceojam]

I looked into a bit further and there's a bunch of events on various focuses that check for the flag "do_not_disturb", which is set by both feasts and summer fairs. It does not seem to be set by swaying or antagonizing, though.

My apologizes, @eastcoastceojam - you were right.

Thanks for the research, Karlington. I am glad that you confirmed busy-ness can slow down Focus progress. It makes sense, but never dawned on me until now.

On a related note, Matilda has been slow to get Focus character modifiers. The first two were earned quickly; the rest have taken a decade+. I've been trying to pick up many different modifiers since they never go away, but my track record hasn't been the best:

• Seduction Focus (5 years) - "Aspiring Seducer", then "Seducer". [also got the Pox in less than 18 months]
• Intrigue Focus (12 years) - spying on different people the entire time, still took 10 years for "Amateur Schemer", then "Schemer" 2 years later
• Family Focus (10 years) - no modifiers, as I had the Pox, and didn't realize that Family focus events don't fire if you have an illness.
• Theology Focus (34 years) - only "Religious Studies" (+1 learning), no seclusion events for the first 30 years since I was often busy
• Rulership Focus (32 years and counting) - no modifiers yet, but have gotten Depressed, lost Arbitrary/Content, and gained Just/Ambitious

Is it normal for historical "hard coded"* characters like Matilda to take such a long time to pick up ahistorical Focus modifiers? I know most rulers don't have 93 years of adult life to test out Focuses, so maybe I'm just being greedy.

* "Hard coded" meaning that her education and other traits don't change much from start to start (like Charlemagne or William the Conqueror).

 

[Karlington]

Thanks for the research, Karlington. I am glad that you confirmed busy-ness can slow down Focus progress. It makes sense, but never dawned on me until now.

No problem - thanks for contributing your knowledge and experience! I learned something new from you, after all.

On a related note, Matilda has been slow to get Focus character modifiers. The first two were earned quickly; the rest have taken a decade+. I've been trying to pick up many different modifiers since they never go away, but my track record hasn't been the best:

• Seduction Focus (5 years) - "Aspiring Seducer", then "Seducer". [also got the Pox in less than 18 months]
• Intrigue Focus (12 years) - spying on different people the entire time, still took 10 years for "Amateur Schemer", then "Schemer" 2 years later
• Family Focus (10 years) - no modifiers, as I had the Pox, and didn't realize that Family focus events don't fire if you have an illness.
• Theology Focus (34 years) - only "Religious Studies" (+1 learning), no seclusion events for the first 30 years since I was often busy
• Rulership Focus (32 years and counting) - no modifiers yet, but have gotten Depressed, lost Arbitrary/Content, and gained Just/Ambitious

The Intrigue and Seduction focuses work a bit differently from other focuses. Instead of being increased randomly over time and with events, there is a leveling-up chance each time you successfully use the focus (i.e. the Spy On and Seduce actions). For Seduction it's 50% on success to get Aspiring Seducer, then once you have that, 20% on success to get Seducer. After Seducer each success has a 10% chance to give the choice between Master Seducer, Hedonist, and no thank you.

The % leveling up chances for Amateur Schemer, Schemer, and Master Schemer/Impaler/no thank you are the same on success.

(The Seduction focus also has a 5% chance of giving the Court Tomcat modifier on each success, independently of the other modifiers.)

In addition to the bonuses you see in-game when you hover over the modifiers, they also give a large increase in chance of success on future attemps, i.e. Aspiring Seducer greatly increases your chance of seduction success even if nothing else has changed. Same with Intrigue. For this reason it's often most effective to rapidly train up the modifiers on easy targets, then once you have Seducer/Schemer (or the lifestyle trait if you're going for it) you can go for your "real" targets.

With Seduction, invite a Lustful or Hedonist female to your court. They are almost guaranteed to accept if you use the lewd seduction option. I often invite 45+-year-old (so they are infertile and don't clutter my court with useless bastards) Lustful women and spam-seduce them until I have Seducer and Court Tomcat, then move on to the ones I really want to impregnate or make lovers.

For Intrigue invite 0 Intrigue characters. Your chance of success increases to the maximum level if you have 10 or more Intrigue higher than theirs. It also increases with the modifiers as mentioned above. If they have any Intrigue modifier or Master Schemer it will decrease your chances, so avoid those characters for training purposes.

Success chance is also massively boosted if your target is a member of a criminal society, if they have a negative sexual reputation modifier (an adulterer one, known sodomite, or cradle robber), or any of the traits:

                        OR = {
                            trait = hedonist
                            trait = drunkard
                            trait = impaler
                            trait = decadent
                            trait = bastard
                            trait = inbred
                            trait = dwarf
                            trait = homosexual
                            trait = gluttonous
                            trait = legit_bastard
                        }

If you take this into account you can level Intrigue extremely quickly.

Another somewhat gamey way to speed it up is to "Stop Spying" after each time, then use the decision again. When you use the decision the next evaluation takes place in 20 + random(20) days, but when it repeats the event again by itself it takes 40 + random(40) days, so you'll save an average of 30 days each time you do this.

(After you stop spying you have to forward one day to select Spy On again, so technically only an average of 29 days.)

You explained yourself why you didn't do well on the Family and Theology focuses. The Rulership focus is just notoriously slow to fire, averaging an event only many years apart, and even when you get a good event it has only a 15% chance of giving you a modifier.

Is it normal for historical "hard coded"* characters like Matilda to take such a long time to pick up ahistorical Focus modifiers? I know most rulers don't have 93 years of adult life to test out Focuses, so maybe I'm just being greedy.

* "Hard coded" meaning that her education and other traits don't change much from start to start (like Charlemagne or William the Conqueror).

Don't worry, we're all greedy in this game. Hardcoded characters are no different from other characters when it comes to focuses and the like.

 

[Heavenly Serpent]

Thanks for the research, Karlington. I am glad that you confirmed busy-ness can slow down Focus progress. It makes sense, but never dawned on me until now.

On a related note, Matilda has been slow to get Focus character modifiers. The first two were earned quickly; the rest have taken a decade+. I've been trying to pick up many different modifiers since they never go away, but my track record hasn't been the best:

• Seduction Focus (5 years) - "Aspiring Seducer", then "Seducer". [also got the Pox in less than 18 months]
• Intrigue Focus (12 years) - spying on different people the entire time, still took 10 years for "Amateur Schemer", then "Schemer" 2 years later
• Family Focus (10 years) - no modifiers, as I had the Pox, and didn't realize that Family focus events don't fire if you have an illness.
• Theology Focus (34 years) - only "Religious Studies" (+1 learning), no seclusion events for the first 30 years since I was often busy
• Rulership Focus (32 years and counting) - no modifiers yet, but have gotten Depressed, lost Arbitrary/Content, and gained Just/Ambitious

Is it normal for historical "hard coded"* characters like Matilda to take such a long time to pick up ahistorical Focus modifiers? I know most rulers don't have 93 years of adult life to test out Focuses, so maybe I'm just being greedy.

* "Hard coded" meaning that her education and other traits don't change much from start to start (like Charlemagne or William the Conqueror).

Haha, the Pox is such incredible bullshit, especially because the virulent strain of Syph that it's supposed to represent was non-existent in the Old World until the Columbian Expeditions, and the closest counterpart was uncommon enough to basically be lumped into Leprosy. In Crusader Kings, you're practically guaranteed to become a Syphilitic if you have sex with like, one person outside of wedlock!

As far as hard coded characters like Matty, no there's nothing special about them to prevent them from gaining Lifestyle Traits. Lifestyle Traits in general are just very poorly balanced against one another; you're all but guaranteed to be able to become a Gardener or a Mystic without any difficulty, but you need a lot of luck to become a Hunter or a Theologian in a timely manner, and as has been discussed, it is basically a thermodynamic miracle to become an Administrator within a single character's lifetime.

 

[Karlington]

Haha, the Pox is such incredible bullshit, especially because the virulent strain of Syph that it's supposed to represent was non-existent in the Old World until the Columbian Expeditions, and the closest counterpart was uncommon enough to basically be lumped into Leprosy. In Crusader Kings, you're practically guaranteed to become a Syphilitic if you have sex with like, one person outside of wedlock!

It's presently unknown whether syphilis was brought from the Americas to Europe or existed in Europe before.

I'm not sure what you are talking about when it comes to catching it in CK2, btw - I use the Seduction focus like crazy and frequently sleep with over a dozen women per character, and virtually never get it (unless I am careless and accidentally sleep with a woman who already has it).

 

[Heavenly Serpent]

It's presently unknown whether syphilis was brought from the Americas to Europe or existed in Europe before.

I'm not sure what you are talking about when it comes to catching it in CK2, btw - I use the Seduction focus like crazy and frequently sleep with over a dozen women per character, and virtually never get it (unless I am careless and accidentally sleep with a woman who already has it).

Haha, I'm exaggerating, I turned off AI seduction, because Pox was absolutely rampant amongst my heirs, so I have a special grudge against it.

Anyway, I always have people comment that; "We don't know whether it existed here or was brought," and as far as my research has shown, it's true that we don't know; but there's a lot of things we don't know, and the consensus is, what we recognize as modern syphilis was unknown to the Old World before the Columbian Voyages.

 

[Lycrist Katkiller]

Haha, I'm exaggerating, I turned off AI seduction, because Pox was absolutely rampant amongst my heirs, so I have a special grudge against it.

Anyway, I always have people comment that; "We don't know whether it existed here or was brought," and as far as my research has shown, it's true that we don't know; but there's a lot of things we don't know, and the consensus is, what we recognize as modern syphilis was unknown to the Old World before the Columbian Voyages.

Are you guys talking pox or lover's pox?

Because those two are different. You will never get lover's pox if you sleep anyone as long as none of the "parties" is married. So if you have no wife and the girl has no husband you are safe from the lover's pox
The "Great Pox" however is a disease you may catch if you sleep (too often) with someone who has the Great Pox. However there are also other ways to get them. Antagonizing a lustful character gives an event where you send a pox-ridden consort to infect them; this usually works and they don't even develop symptoms, just get the Great Pox trait

 

[Heavenly Serpent]

Are you guys talking pox or lover's pox?

Because those two are different. You will never get lover's pox if you sleep anyone as long as none of the "parties" is married. So if you have no wife and the girl has no husband you are safe from the lover's pox
The "Great Pox" however is a disease you may catch if you sleep (too often) with someone who has the Great Pox. However there are also other ways to get them. Antagonizing a lustful character gives an event where you send a pox-ridden consort to infect them; this usually works and they don't even develop symptoms, just get the Great Pox trait

I've always associated getting Great Pox with having sexual encounters in game, but if it's just a random possibility that you can get it, that's even more frustrating to me; Still, It's always seemed to me that it's much likelier that you get Great Pox from having extramarital affairs, even if your partner didn't have it originally!

 

[Karlington]

Anyway, I always have people comment that; "We don't know whether it existed here or was brought," and as far as my research has shown, it's true that we don't know; but there's a lot of things we don't know, and the consensus is, what we recognize as modern syphilis was unknown to the Old World before the Columbian Voyages.

There is no real consensus among scientists on this topic.

Are you guys talking pox or lover's pox?

Because those two are different. You will never get lover's pox if you sleep anyone as long as none of the "parties" is married. So if you have no wife and the girl has no husband you are safe from the lover's pox
The "Great Pox" however is a disease you may catch if you sleep (too often) with someone who has the Great Pox. However there are also other ways to get them. Antagonizing a lustful character gives an event where you send a pox-ridden consort to infect them; this usually works and they don't even develop symptoms, just get the Great Pox trait

This is not true at all, I'm afraid. Both Great Pox (syphilis) and lover's pox can be caught by sleeping with those already infected with them, and both can be caught by random event.

 

[Lycrist Katkiller]

There is no real consensus among scientists on this topic.



This is not true at all, I'm afraid. Both Great Pox (syphilis) and lover's pox can be caught by sleeping with those already infected with them, and both can be caught by random event.

I've never gotten lover's pox from a random event. But you are right, of course, you can get them if you seduce someone who already have them