Why is paradox ignoring years of calls for changes to peace conferences? (list of threads)

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No one's denying peace conferences need work, and PDX isn't "ignoring" the issue, given that it's right there on their roadmap. I don't see why you felt the need to copy-paste links to every single thread on the subject.

It's not as if Paradox have to come up with new ideas from scratch, either. EU4 has a really good peace system that actually addresses many problems that people have with the HoI4 one, and that game came out three years before HoI4. Not sure why they don't draw some inspiration from EU4.
I wish they would just port over the EU war score and peace negotiation system, too. By all means, keep some sort of peace conference system for major victories like a faction defeating another, but the EU peace system would add so much to the game.

(This is when someone inevitably goes "BuT WwIi WaS a FiGhT tO tHe DeAtH", to which I can only reply that HoI4 features a lot more fighting than just the Big 2 (edit: and not even WWII was a fight to the death for all parties involved, lots of minor Axis allies laid down their armes before Germany fell, for example, and the Soviet Union didn't invade and conquer Finland). It's ridiculous that if I want Hong Kong back as China, for example, I have to actually conquer all of England to get them to agree to peace. Then you have the winter war, the Chinese driving the Japanese off the mainland, and so on).
 
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There really is a lot to consider in Peace Conferences.
Read up on the Treaty of Versailles and the Potsdam Agreement, there is more to it than 'My army took it, I'm staying', although that was Stalin's approach.

For my own enjoyment and peace of mind, I use a mod called "Player-Led Peace Conferences" which lets you do pretty much whatever you want in conferences you are involved in. With over 380,000 (yes, three hundred eighty thousand) subscribers, you know it works.

Should PDX fix/update Peace Conferences? Yes, they clearly suck.

That said, until they do, try the above mentioned mod.
It ain't perfect either, sometime you have to click 'pass' a lot, but it's better than rage quiting a game.

There's a huge flaw in the "mod band-aid" people keep suggesting...

It does not work in multiplayer.

It's a good cheat for single player, but even then, what if you can't get to a peace conference, such as in the Japan-DEI example? You're still screwed even with that mod!
 
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As @Dlin369 said above, HOI4 has unique needs for a peace conference. First, the game spans a short period of time. Second, the first three to five years are crucial and even unique in themselves, not just for majors building up for the war, but also for minors who are trying to become a regional power and rearrange a border or two, before the big war makes almost any expansion a world affair. A peace conference in the early years, when the free world was avoiding war, might need different outcomes than a peace conference after a major war where the majors are willing to redraw the world map.

In those first three to five years, after a player has completed a focus tree branch that represents a nation successfully building itself into a regional power, should be able to conduct limited war with a neighbor or two, without major powers turning it into a world war. Peace mechanics for such regional conflicts would require, first, to keep the war limited, and then after the conflict, provide a peace that ranges from the aggressor losing, a draw, or the aggressor winning and receiving what the focus indicated.

Peace mechanics for the big war would probably have different drivers influencing how it works, since the map of entire continents could change. There have been many suggestions made on how to make that peace process better.
 
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As @Dlin369 said above, HOI4 has unique needs for a peace conference. First, the game spans a short period of time. Second, the first three to five years are crucial and even unique in themselves, not just for majors building up for the war, but also for minors who are trying to become a regional power and rearrange a border or two, before the big war makes almost any expansion a world affair. A peace conference in the early years, when the free world was avoiding war, might need different outcomes than a peace conference after a major war where the majors are willing to redraw the world map.

In those first three to five years, after a player has completed a focus tree branch that represents a nation successfully building itself into a regional power, should be able to conduct limited war with a neighbor or two, without major powers turning it into a world war. Peace mechanics for such regional conflicts would require, first, to keep the war limited, and then after the conflict, provide a peace that ranges from the aggressor losing, a draw, or the aggressor winning and receiving what the focus indicated.

Peace mechanics for the big war would probably have different drivers influencing how it works, since the map of entire continents could change. There have been many suggestions made on how to make that peace process better.

This always happens to me. Every alt-history focus path is always the new way world war 2 starts. I wish the early minor wars could be more separated and regional without leading to the inevitable triggering of the world war.
 
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This really needs a higher priority on the fix it list. Peace conferences have been a huge QoL issue for years. It was somewhat improved years ago by incorporating features from the earlier Peace Conference mod. But no attention for years now is not acceptable. There are few things from a game enjoyment standpoint more rage inducing than the Peace Conferences screwing them out of land they are sitting on.
 
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Shaka of Carthage

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We're not ignoring it, it's just a complex system that touches a lot of different things. It is on the ToDo list, but until we have time to give it proper attention it unfortunately won't get done. There's no sense in hacking together a temporary solution.

Did some of you miss this?
 
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Did some of you miss this?

Dude, it’s been over four years at this point. They say it’s on their to-do list, but... it’s been over four years. This has been a much-requested change since 2016. It obviously isn’t a priority for them. Giving irrelevant countries like Portugal unique focus trees is evidently more important to them.
 
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They are not ignoring it, there simply is nothing to gain on it by Paradox.

When they tell you is on the to-do list but they haven't had time IN FOUR YEARS to give it proper attention, you now they are trying to politely tell you they are not going to do it, because fixing broken mechanics brings no revenue.

I mean, they even hired a contractor to do a sub-par job on a meme DLC where hardly anything works as intended, because they don't have time to make a few focus trees, do you guys seriously expect they will take a look into peace deals for free?

$100 say you give the job to one of the many amazing modders this community has (the same guys whose work the contractor has ripped off for the last DLC) and will solve it in a couple months tops. But then again, go explain that budget allocation to the CFO.

Get used to the peace deals, they are here to stay.
 
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Did some of you miss this?

I do appreciate Shaka of Carthage giving us a heads up that the peace conference is still on the to-do list. Assurances are important. It lets us know, that maybe the developers want to fix it, but cannot find the time to do it. I suspect that is not the fault of the team itself, as it is most likely required to prove its worth to the company, by creating money producing content within short windows of time. From the outside looking in, it seems the team is given just enough resources to produce this cash flow, leaving large fixes that are hard to charge money for undone.

If this situation exists then making the large complicated improvements would require the company spending more money on the team, while theoretically, making no extra money in the end. The other option is for the team, for a period of time, to produce less money, while maintaining current costs, while they make these type improvements. Either one is a tough sell to executives who are probably under pressure to do the exact opposite, that being, increase the money made per dollar spent.

Since these forums are one of the only means I know of to communicate what players find valuable in the game, it is here that some of the communication will happen. Making that tough sell to the executives for the resources to provide what is being asked for, may (or may not) be advanced with voices here.
 
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Cuz, it's a complex system that touches everything. Reason for the low priority.

Something that has the potential to completely destroy entire playthroughs - and very frequently has - should be pretty high up on the priority list. The “complexity” of such a task is irrelevant in that case - if it’s such a huge problem that countless scores of players have experienced, I would think that any self-respecting development team would make it the highest priority over completely superfluous mechanics like espionage, which nobody wanted to come before a reworked peace system. They’ve consistently prioritised adding in completely new mechanics - and charging high prices for them - over fixing pre-existing broken mechanics that ruin the game. This has gone on for four years now. Surely, even for the most die-hard Paradox apologist, there comes a point where it gets a bit ridiculous.

Edit: Love how y’all downvoting me without bothering to offer a rebuttal. Wasn’t aware this forum was full of fanboy consumer sheep like reddit.
 
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Not the same people who would work on a new mechanic.
Didn't you know? PDX has only one developer, so they can only work on one thing at a time. For some reason this dude likes to post on the forum under a myriad of user names, for example he takes on the "Podcat" persona when he feels like coming across as the leader type.
 
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Many times I had to delete a good game due to various mistakes I was making in Peace Conferences. I hope for a better system.
The day we get proper systems for the Battle Planner and operational warfare (including the ability to kick allies out of your sectors so they don't gobble up all your food), and a proper war score and peace negotiation system, I'll be one happy camper. If we got them both in the same DLC it'd be amazing.
 
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No one's denying peace conferences need work, and PDX isn't "ignoring" the issue, given that it's right there on their roadmap. I don't see why you felt the need to copy-paste links to every single thread on the subject.

Because it is on a short list of the most common things leading to game-ruining / achievement ruining outcomes. Dozens to hundreds of things have been addressed from 2016 to now that have less impact on gameplay.
 
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I do appreciate Shaka of Carthage giving us a heads up that the peace conference is still on the to-do list. Assurances are important. It lets us know, that maybe the developers want to fix it, but cannot find the time to do it. I suspect that is not the fault of the team itself, as it is most likely required to prove its worth to the company, by creating money producing content within short windows of time. From the outside looking in, it seems the team is given just enough resources to produce this cash flow, leaving large fixes that are hard to charge money for undone.

If this situation exists then making the large complicated improvements would require the company spending more money on the team, while theoretically, making no extra money in the end. The other option is for the team, for a period of time, to produce less money, while maintaining current costs, while they make these type improvements. Either one is a tough sell to executives who are probably under pressure to do the exact opposite, that being, increase the money made per dollar spent.

Since these forums are one of the only means I know of to communicate what players find valuable in the game, it is here that some of the communication will happen. Making that tough sell to the executives for the resources to provide what is being asked for, may (or may not) be advanced with voices here.

But here's the confusing thing. Based on this logic, why fix bugs at all?

Every modern game developer releases updates to their game in downloaded patches. We live in the amazing time of "living games." Many of these patches are for balance purpose, and some of them are significant, and surely take time and effort away another task that would make them money. So why fix anything if there is no money in it?

What about customer respect and satisfaction? I could argue there is value in that, although it can't be as easily measured as profits from a new DLC, developer reputation is a factor for future purchases. Now, maybe not so much for paradox players ...we suffer the dev's neglect and complain and yet we still hand over our cash for the next little drop of content...

In the stock market, a company will pay a dividend to stock holders. What the hell, right? Why would a company pay YOU? I see game maintenance and improvement as the same thing. A company should thank their customers by fixing a broken product, as a way to show we are important to them.

If a car company's car keeps exploding, shouldn't they do something about that? Well, there's no money to be made there, so who cares, let's keep making new cars? Wouldn't it make more sense to fix that exploding car that people have been complaining about for 4 years?

I brought up some examples that you could argue don't relate to devs and videos games, you may be right, but in my personal opinion the logic of it is the same.

Does paradox really like having a reputation that they only care about money and peddling DLC? I don't think so.

In fact, paradox actually did earn my respect when they listened to my thread on heavy French tanks and put them in the game. I probably would have moved on from HOI4 by now, but paradox has actually proven in the past that they will do things like this to improve the game. But yes, that was just simply unlocking tech, and i know a peace deal rework is an entirely different story.

But i have to say the dev post, i disagree. There are so many little things that could be done right now to improve the peace deal system, and we want them right now rather than waiting another 2 or 3 years for a complete overhaul. For example, how long would it take and how much money would it cost to add a multi player peace deal turn timer so AFKrs don't ruin a session for 20+ players? Would it really be so hard to prevent ping-pong passing, when all they need to do is make sure turns go straight down before going back up so everyone can use their warscore before they're completely screwed out of any gains?

There are little things we need desperately and there is no sense in waiting to do everything all at once. I have to strongly disagree. We need it worked on now.
 
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I think people analyze this stuff too much. Yes it would be nice to have better peace conferences. But by the time you have one, the game is won typically, or deep in alt-history anyway.

When I puppeted West Germany. Soviets puppeted East Germany (capital spawned in Niederschliesen). And the German Reich remained in Berlin. That was the weirdest peace I've seen.
 
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I think people analyze this stuff too much. Yes it would be nice to have better peace conferences. But by the time you have one, the game is won typically, or deep in alt-history anyway.

When I puppeted West Germany. Soviets puppeted East Germany (capital spawned in Niederschliesen). And the German Reich remained in Berlin. That was the weirdest peace I've seen.

Not true at all. Many times, a peace deal is very early on in the game. The Japan-DEI / Germany-Netherlands and other similar situations happen right when the game is just getting started.
 
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Looking at the whole Star Citizen farago, I think we should all just count ourselves lucky that Paradox is a game-dev company that actually wants to deliver playable games.

Thinking particularly of that EvW mess, they could have gone that way (taking money from people just to develop the game without necessarily ever delivering anything like a finished product) but decided that wasn't for them.
 
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