Why is my Research at -30?

[unmerged(22711)]

(Apologies if this has been answered numerous times! - Please get the search function working!)

I'm playing as the USA and its 1865, I'm rolling in Prestige and Cash yet for some reason my Research (while being at 100% .63 per month) is at -30 on the top bar - meaning that I can't research anything (the date to finish keeps going up!) for absolutely ages!...

I haven't applied the patch yet but will be doing so this evening - will this stop it or is it to do with other factors?

TIA

 

[unmerged(17780)]

You must have bought technologies from other countries? That is "punished" in the way that your research points are lowered and your own research, as you noted, will only resume after your research points are back to 0.

 

[unmerged(10385)]

Did you trade tech in any way? If so thats why.

 

[unmerged(22711)]

You've caught me red handed!

Yep, I bought some from the UK...

Thanks for clarifying it...

 

[Juba]

Originally posted by AngryJawaII
Did you trade tech in any way? If so thats why.

Only buying techs make you lose research points, selling doesn't.

 

[Hakkapeliitta]

Originally posted by Juba
Only buying techs make you lose research points, selling doesn't.

And even buying doesn't make you lose RPs if you did not initiate the deal. But the AI never initiates deals towards humans, so this is a moot point.

 

[unmerged(23049)]

Originally posted by Hakkapeliitta
And even buying doesn't make you lose RPs if you did not initiate the deal. But the AI never initiates deals towards humans, so this is a moot point.

why do you lose RPs for buying tech? there is no sence

 

[unmerged(21992)]

It doesn't make sense, except from a game balance perspective.

If you can trade tech for free, then you can have a situation where two human players in a MP game ally and divide up the tech they're going to research. Then they both progress twice as fast as anyone who isn't doing it.

Of course, this doesn't really matter at all because, if you didn't initiate the transaction, then it doesn't cost you anything. So each player can just give each other technologies if they trust each other, and the only thing that happens is that they lose extra DI (or one player gets backstabbed, not an unlikely situation).

Personally I'd rather it were set up so that anyone on any side of a deal lost the research points, and the AI just rejected deals it didn't think it could afford in research points. From a player perspective I'd like the techs to be free, but I know perfectly well that it would result in me having full research in 1870 in every game. As it is, your technological level is dictated by the time required for your own work if you have bad relations, and the research you generate if you have good relations. And it's easy for a successful nation to generate large amounts of research points.

 

[Juba]

Originally posted by RaulGonz.Blanco
why do you lose RPs for buying tech? there is no sence

IMO it does make sense, many of the techs would require implementation instead of just a bright idea in someone's head. Granted implementation probably would take less research so perhaps like 3 or 4 of the research points should be taken away when per tech when buying and 1 or 2 when selling (to represent sending specialists to the other country to help out)

 

[Porcius]

Originally posted by Hakkapeliitta
And even buying doesn't make you lose RPs if you did not initiate the deal. But the AI never initiates deals towards humans, so this is a moot point.

Sure they do. In my game last night as Japan, Korea offered me some naval tech and a bunch of money for the water wheel.

 

[unmerged(22951)]

Originally posted by Silverlight
It doesn't make sense, except from a game balance perspective.


<snip>

As it is, your technological level is dictated by the time required for your own work if you have bad relations, and the research you generate if you have good relations. And it's easy for a successful nation to generate large amounts of research points.

Clarification here - your research always finishes when you've got the requisite number of points, regardless. So, with the "fix", the only effect trading for tech has is that you've essentially "borrowed" the tech a bit earlier than you would've otherwise developed it, until your own tech points catch up and you can start your own research again. There is *no* long term benefit to trading techs. (Which, frankly, is a bit too harsh - you should have to pay like 70% of the traded tech's cost, maybe?)

 

[unmerged(23049)]

Originally posted by rlturner
Clarification here - your research always finishes when you've got the requisite number of points, regardless. So, with the "fix", the only effect trading for tech has is that you've essentially "borrowed" the tech a bit earlier than you would've otherwise developed it, until your own tech points catch up and you can start your own research again. There is *no* long term benefit to trading techs.

i understand, that trading tech is not just selling the idea. OK, you have to send specialists and making workshops etc.

but no long term benefit? this is not realistic, sure, exchange tech IS an Advantage, why do you think all the scientists all over the world are connected with each other?

And the Multiplayer opinion doesnt fit for me. Yeah, an alliance could exchange their tech and could be faster than the others, but... this is one reason for creating alliances. If you dont like that, you should prohibit alliances at all, cause alliances have more manpower, more army, more money etc. than the others....

 

[SirGrotius]

there is a long-term advantage if you trade for that key army tech right before a big war, allowing you to conquest an extra territory or two. or perhaps getting a train tech that would allow you to upgrade your allows a few years ahead of schedule, thereby granting you long term benefits in the form of increased economic prosperity.

 

[Hakkapeliitta]

Originally posted by RaulGonz.Blanco

but no long term benefit? this is not realistic, sure, exchange tech IS an Advantage, why do you think all the scientists all over the world are connected with each other?

There is a long term benefit in the game: without buing techs it is impossible to have all the techs before 1920.

It is easy to get something like 2RP/month in the late game, and it is impossible to spend more than about 1RP/month on reseach, so you use your 'excess' RPs to buy tech. So tech trading is really useful, once you generate RP's faster than you can spend on your own research.

In essence: you can at least double your speed of getting new techs during late game by buying techs

Cheers, H.

 

[Baron Jukaga]

I think it makes perfect sense. The research point debt simulates the work that goes into integrating the technology into your country. It's not perfect, but it's better than instant assimilation. In a future patch I wouldn't mind seeing a time delay for the newly aquired technology to take effect.

 

[unmerged(22951)]

Originally posted by Hakkapeliitta
There is a long term benefit in the game: without buing techs it is impossible to have all the techs before 1920.

It is easy to get something like 2RP/month in the late game, and it is impossible to spend more than about 1RP/month on reseach, so you use your 'excess' RPs to buy tech. So tech trading is really useful, once you generate RP's faster than you can spend on your own research.

In essence: you can at least double your speed of getting new techs during late game by buying techs

Cheers, H.

ummm... RIGHT!

(checked it in 1914 scenario w/Germany)

Once you get above 1.0/month your resource generation outstrips your research rate, which isn't apparent if someone <cough, cough> is avoiding carpal tunnel effects by playing pre-1870'ish scenarios only.