Why is my king so desperate... for Paris?

[Dolin]

I knew it was going to happen, because it did so last time I was the lord of Paris.
But I somewhat had my hopes it had been fixed by now... It hasn't.

I now start with two counties, however, instead of just Paris. So that's good, I guess?
Doesn't take too long for the king to grant me the duchy of Paris, as I'm his best and most loyal councillor.
The Karling king of Middle-Francia gets placed on the throne of West-Francia, and he declares this to be his main title.

Paris is the official capital of that kingdom, and then the inevitable happens: he wants my city of Paris. Over, and over again. And every single time a king tries to take what's not his, I obviously refuse and 95% of his lords join me in my fight against this tyran...

At least I'm happy the lords join you when their liege does something unacceptable, but this is getting out of hand. I don't want to fight (and depose) my king EVERY 10 years or so...

Nothing seems to prevent this... Non-agression pacts slow his decision down, but does not prevent it, being friends with the king after marrying off my daughter is not helping either... After 5 deposed kings in a row, one of my close relatives somehow inherited the throne... and guess what? Yep.

Now I'm regent to his son, the 5 year old Chatenois King of France...
And I don't need to guess what his first act will be in 11 years.

 

[Sunbro BigBoss]

Monarchs are obsessed with de iure capitals. In my games they often gift it to me and then claim it back, again and again and again... The AI needs some way to understand the strength and likelyhood of a potential revolt and act accordingly, although I believe they are intentionally programmed to be this aggressive for gameplay reasons.

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

Kingdoms all have de jure capitals and Monarchs will revoke territory from their most powerful vassals to get it if they have to. They really don't care about the tyranny malus either, they seem to prefer the de jure capital over an actual realm...

Things like this make me wish there was de jure capital drift.

 

[Tatterhood]

Is this mechanic actually trying to simulate something historical? (Not counting Byzantium since they have a special decision for it anyway.) It seems like a rather bizarre thing to make the AI care so much about otherwise.

 

[Lorekeeper88]

I had a similar thing happen to me with a viceroyal vassal England. I couldn't understand why nobody liked my viceroy and then I realised he kept giving and revoking London.
I think it is a loop when they are at their demesne limit so after getting it, they realise they are over the limit, and instead of giving something else, they give off a county in a duchy where they have nothing, it just happens to be the capital. And everything loops.

 

[Tatterhood]

I had a similar thing happen to me with a viceroyal vassal England. I couldn't understand why nobody liked my viceroy and then I realised he kept giving and revoking London.
I think it is a loop when they are at their demesne limit so after getting it, they realise they are over the limit, and instead of giving something else, they give off a county in a duchy where they have nothing, it just happens to be the capital. And everything loops.

It's worse than that, the AI apparently just prefers to give away the county they gained most recently so the loop is almost guaranteed.

 

[Dolin]

Is this mechanic actually trying to simulate something historical? (Not counting Byzantium since they have a special decision for it anyway.) It seems like a rather bizarre thing to make the AI care so much about otherwise.

I doubt it, since Paris only became a place of importance at around 12th/13rd century. Before that, and at the time of playing, the capital of "France" was located elsewhere.

"In the 10th century, Paris was a provincial cathedral city of little political or economic significance, but under the kings of the Capetian dynasty who ruled France between 987 and 1328, it developed into an important commercial and religious center and the seat of the royal administration of the country."

 

[SSA]

You have 2 choices if you don't want to constantly rebel.

1. Give-up Paris, or

2. Press a claim for the empire.

The AI doesn't care about Tyranny in the game, as long as it benefits them in some way.

 

[Tatterhood]

I doubt it, since Paris only became a place of importance at around 12th/13rd century. Before that, and at the time of playing, the capital of "France" was located elsewhere.

"In the 10th century, Paris was a provincial cathedral city of little political or economic significance, but under the kings of the Capetian dynasty who ruled France between 987 and 1328, it developed into an important commercial and religious center and the seat of the royal administration of the country."

I didn't necessarily mean Paris specifically so much as the whole "de jure capital" concept and specifically the idea that the king would consider it super important to have one particular province in his personal demesne.

The specific case of 769 Paris is blatantly ahistorical but it's a consequence of a more general mechanic and I was wondering if there was some context in which that would be historically accurate.

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

It's more of a game design perspective. Nations tend to have other nations that they come into conflict with, especially in the later start dates. I'll use an example.

For the 1066 start, France and the HRE almost always go to war in the first year. To give France a fighting chance, their capital is tucked deeply in the territory. If the A.I. just put it wherever it wanted, we'd end up with capitals mere counties away from a nation's mortal enemy's border.

To make a long story short, it's to prevent the A.I. from putting their capital in dumb places that would lead to their entire family getting capture/basically instantly losing wars.

 

[Tryvenyal]

I would like a mechanism where a county is developing into a royal/imperial capital. When a Kingdomtitle is created, current capital is starting to count towards this. Once a capital is defined, current mechanism is ok but a patiant king with another capital chould wait and once the Kingdom/Empire is ruled from his capital X years, the county modifier is moved.

The modifier is not a boost but a small prestige penatly to the de-jure liege only. THis could be an option for Dukes asw...

 

[rowdog]

I kind of like that the AI "thinks" like a player. When I am king of France, it's just a fact that I am going to own Paris and a bit of tyranny to get it wouldn't bother me in the least.

 

[Woifee]

It's more of a game design perspective. Nations tend to have other nations that they come into conflict with, especially in the later start dates. I'll use an example.

For the 1066 start, France and the HRE almost always go to war in the first year. To give France a fighting chance, their capital is tucked deeply in the territory. If the A.I. just put it wherever it wanted, we'd end up with capitals mere counties away from a nation's mortal enemy's border.

To make a long story short, it's to prevent the A.I. from putting their capital in dumb places that would lead to their entire family getting capture/basically instantly losing wars.

If this would be the case so many kingdoms wouldn’t have stupid capitals.

 

[Dolin]

I kind of like that the AI "thinks" like a player. When I am king of France, it's just a fact that I am going to own Paris and a bit of tyranny to get it wouldn't bother me in the least.

I'm not sure how you play this game, but revoking a county that results in an all-out rebellion ending in an immediate abdication and game-over isn't my usual playing-style.

 

[Anastasius]

IF you like Paris so much why don't you.....become the king of France?

 

[Tryvenyal]

I'm not sure how you play this game, but revoking a county that results in an all-out rebellion ending in an immediate abdication and game-over isn't my usual playing-style.

Unlike the player, AI can't "Game Over" and is not built to follow the same laws a the player. with that said... I´m not defending stupid AI.

 

[Geglash]

Give Paris to your vassal, your king won`t be able to revoke it from him.

 

[TheDungen]

The wierd thig is that under real life feudalism there really isn't such a thing as a dejure capital. The capital is where the king happens to be.

 

[rowdog]

I'm not sure how you play this game, but revoking a county that results in an all-out rebellion ending in an immediate abdication and game-over isn't my usual playing-style.

Oh, well, I usually just try to end the game as fast as possible. It's a shame us humans are as bad at achieving our goals as the AI.

But seriously, I said think like a player not play like a player. While the AI can't seem to pull it off I see nothing wrong with the AI having the goal to obtain Paris.

 

[TheDungen]

Oh, well, I usually just try to end the game as fast as possible. It's a shame us humans are as bad at achieving our goals as the AI.

But seriously, I said think like a player not play like a player. While the AI can't seem to pull it off I see nothing wrong with the AI having the goal to obtain Paris.

I disagree because, historically speaking courts in feudal countries have often been dependent on which dynasty was in power and even then moved around a lot. The AI should desire provinces and duchies based on an estimate of their value and try to take provinces that would be valuable to it, if it has a convenient way to do so. And in the same vein have a set of weights for where to place it's capital.