Why is Luftwaffe getting annihilated?

[unmerged(26864)]

I recently installed TRP, and I am currently playing Germany. It is now fall 1940 and I have had nothing but trouble fighting the air war. Despite the fact that I have build a substantial number of interceptors and fighters and kept them up to date technologically, I'm getting spanked again and again.

Until I took her out France completely dominated the airspace. Massive losses kept Luftwaffe on the ground reinforcing, and RAF bombers had a free go at my industry. Loading as France I discovered, that I was fighting just 8 intercepters and 8 TAC's.

Now much the same thing is happening, only this time I'm up against a handfull of ancient Commonwealth interceptors being marginally supported by more modern RAF planes.

What is happening? So far I have spent massive amounts of IC reinforcing my air units, and still they have been out of action most of the time. I'm a bit worried about what will happen, when I pay Uncle Joe huge Red Army a visit next summer, and I (once again) will have to fight without air superiority.

Anyone experienced the same thing? And any ideas about what to do?

 

[SiRanger]

Have you kept up-to-date with the air combat doctrines-- these enhance the efficiency of your missions and upgrade org. levels (also morale, but that is a minor factor in TRP)?

How do you have your interceptors organized? 3-division stacks are the smallest unit I give air superiority missions, anything less will be decimated pretty quick. 5-stack are the best -- however, make sure you managed your air leader pool to ensure sufficient air marshals are promoted to command the stack. Before attacking Poland, I try to have 4 5-stacks of interceptors ready to protect the borders. I don't normally begin building fighters until mid-1939 as those are offensive weapons in Barbarossa.

Do you have flak to support the interceptors? On bombing missions, flak will assist in reducing the effectiveness of the enemy bombers.

 

[unmerged(26864)]

Thx for your reply. Yes, I have kept the air doctrines up to date.

Normally I prefer small stacks of only two planes in order to avoid having too many planes grounded because of a single case of low org. This has worked quite well in vanilla. But I noticed that the French had big stacks, so I shifted to four-plane stacks. This did not change the picture much however.

The problem might be, that I have built mostly fighters. I haven't spent much time studying the mechanics of the game myself, but someone once claimed here on the forum, that interceptors where best against bombers, while fighters where the best against fighters, interceptors etc. Following this advise I normally dont build many interceptors.

I usually only build AA to protect key areas like main naval bases.

Have you kept up-to-date with the air combat doctrines-- these enhance the efficiency of your missions and upgrade org. levels (also morale, but that is a minor factor in TRP)?

How do you have your interceptors organized? 3-division stacks are the smallest unit I give air superiority missions, anything less will be decimated pretty quick. 5-stack are the best -- however, make sure you managed your air leader pool to ensure sufficient air marshals are promoted to command the stack. Before attacking Poland, I try to have 4 5-stacks of interceptors ready to protect the borders. I don't normally begin building fighters until mid-1939 as those are offensive weapons in Barbarossa.

Do you have flak to support the interceptors? On bombing missions, flak will assist in reducing the effectiveness of the enemy bombers.

 

[FireDevlin]

I find that really any stack less then four when it comes to Interceptors (and really fighters fit too, although I sometimes will build a general up in skill with two as I am building fighters) is not going to be effective.

Get those stacks of 4 and 5 going as soon as possible.

 

[Hallsten]

Get those stacks of 4 and 5 going as soon as possible.

Exactly.

Also, don't forget that AAs are your friends. Moreso in TRP than in vanilla HOI2.

 

[unmerged(26864)]

Thx for your advise, guys. I have restarted my game and built plenty of interceptors for my big stacks. Its now late 1938, and I'm eager to see how things will go this time.

 

[nizoral]

playing with Germany i just go with AA builds for the early war time, get bombed but with those high infrastructure provinces it isn't much a deal, you recover fast. Later on, at the russian front i dominate the skies in order to avoid my land units from being anhilated in combat.

 

[Slyguy3129]

Interceptors get an interception bonus vs TACs and STR and CAS (+50 in the combat modifier) which pushes them over the edge. Fighters are just that, they fight other fighters and interceptors.

Think of it this way. Fighters are your offensive small plane units, while interceptors are your defensive small plane units.

 

[Hallsten]

Interceptors get an interception bonus vs TACs and STR and CAS (+50 in the combat modifier) which pushes them over the edge. Fighters are just that, they fight other fighters and interceptors.

Think of it this way. Fighters are your offensive small plane units, while interceptors are your defensive small plane units.

Exactly, which is why you need to mix the two.

 

[unmerged(12222)]

Is that even realistic? I don't recall there being "interceptor" fighter wings in the Luftwaffe. A fighter wing was just a fighter wing. In TRP we have 109-Ds as interceptors and 109-Es as multi-role. Why would a 109-D do better than a 109-E at anything? :wacko:

I guess it makes more sense later in game, since 109s had nice climb rate while 190s were best at lower altitudes...

Oh yeah there was the Me 163 Komet, but that wasn't exactly a common thing.

50% bonus just seems a bit much is all I'm saying...

 

[Lothos]

The Air to Air ratting on Interceptors is lower than Fighters. Fighters do not get any bonuses. The problem was under Vanilla people would build Fighters and no interceptors as the bonus in Vanilla was 25% for Interceptors against Bombers so it made sense to spend a little more IC for Fighters. Now with a 50% bonus both Interceptors and Fighters have a very important role. Fighters are more of an escort type plane as their speciality is Air to Air fighting. In many cases they do not carry cannons and usually carry machine guns while Interceptors carry Cannons and Machine guns and with their 50% bonus it means against bombers they are better than Fighters but against Fighters they have a lower Air to Air ratting. So Interceptors now have a role of their own and encourage people to mix their forces rather than building just one item.