Why is Japan 100% fascism?

[TamaJatu]

I don't think fascism was popular then 1936.
After the May 15 Incident, Hirohito said that Those who are fascist are absolutely impossible "ファッショに近き者は絶対に不可なり" at the recommendation of the Prime Minister.
also The Imperial Rule Assistance Association was held by Fumimaro Konoe to create a national unity government during the 2nd Sino-Japanese War.
It did not exist in 1936.
I think should change to the national spirit of Politicized Army like Mexico.

- 1936 Japanese general election

Democracy 78%
fascism, populism 13%
neutrality 9%

- 1942

 

[George Parr]

Because the political system mostly stands for which faction someone aligns with, NOT for their actual political spectrum. Japan aligns most closely with Germany and Italy, as those were technically Japan's allies in the war. That means they have to be fascist. Whether that should put them at 100% when neither Germany nor Italy get that high is another matter. The Soviet Union most definately wasn't at 100% support for communism either, yet that is what you get in the game.

The whole thing is obviously a simplification, and the names assigned are supposed to fit to the timeframe as a whole. You can see that in other areas as well, e.g. techs.

 

[TamaJatu]

Because the political system mostly stands for which faction someone aligns with, NOT for their actual political spectrum. Japan aligns most closely with Germany and Italy, as those were technically Japan's allies in the war. That means they have to be fascist. Whether that should put them at 100% when neither Germany nor Italy get that high is another matter. The Soviet Union most definately wasn't at 100% support for communism either, yet that is what you get in the game.

The whole thing is obviously a simplification, and the names assigned are supposed to fit to the timeframe as a whole. You can see that in other areas as well, e.g. techs.

It is correct.
However, the new DLC for Bulgaria and Turkey is very complex.
Compared to that, I think Japan is oversimplified.
Possibility to update Japan again with DLC?
WtT Japan's NF is realy terrible.

 

[Deliberus]

I'm still wondering whether the political party % represents the cabinet itself, the people's proportional vote, representational vote or something else entirely...

 

[Dlin369]

I'm still wondering whether the political party % represents the cabinet itself, the people's proportional vote, representational vote or something else entirely...

The answer in theory is “whatever makes for good gameplay”. That being said 100% party support I feel like should be dropped in favor of a mix of support and then some early game events (like focus 1-3) should then cause the nation to flip from Democratic to either Fascist or nonaligned

 

[TamaJatu]

What I especially want to say is that Japan in 1936 was very unstable. It did not maintain a high degree of stability, nor did it have a approval rating for the goverment (eg,the February 26 Incident).
It is very unpleasant that ALL THE JAPANESE at that time were fascists ,Warmonger and Hirohito was the leader.(Where is Fumimaro Konoe?)
it is stereotype and American propaganda during the war in Japan.
This should do by the paradox, not the mod.

- February 26 Incident

 

[Vityviktor]

Japanese politics (and most of the Japanese focus tree) should be reworked. They're terribly oversimplified, specially when you compare it to the later regional DLCs, and their detail.

If any of the ultranationalist militarist factions should be considered as "Fascist" in the game, that would be the Kodoha, which is "Non Aligned" in the game, I don't know why.

Also, as others said before, they managed to portray Bulgaria as a Non-Aligned monarchy with different factions, and maybe that should be the best thing for Japan too. Maybe that kind of system should be exported to the rest of the (at least Major) Non-Aligned governments (just as the Senate mechanics of the US for the democracies... one can dream), allowing Japan to further delve into the path of the ultranationalist cliques (and the single party totalitarian regime of the Taisei Yokusankai) or a different parlamentarian focus which could evolve into a "Democracy" (in game terms), closer to the Allies.

 

[Paul.Ketcham]

I think at minimum, Japan (assuming the February incidents and the slide towards fascism is treated as inevitable at game start) should be similar to the USSR and have a standing democratic party with limited support, i.e. 30% support, offset by national spirits (and Hirohito bonuses) to keep stability up. For better realism, Japan should probably be centrist-nonaligned at start (i.e. with elections), and flip to fascism with the two militaristic paths (either support or oppose Kodoha are both fascists, and arguably the Kodoha were more fanatically-fascist than their Toseiha opponents). The February coup could be an event whose reaction determines how party support reacts (meaning you either aim towards elections by going left and risk a civil war, or let the military take power).

As far as the Kodoha and Toseiha go, however, I'd rather that either government remains fascist as both support aggressive imperialism rather than the sort of containment alliances I expect from nonaligned nations (realistically, "nonaligned" factions are an oxymoron, as nations with a third-party alignment now attract nations with no alignment whatsoever). Having monarchist Japan exist as nonaligned makes more sense as a democratic path, since it implies the military has lost its ability to direct policy (i.e. invading Manchuria without government approval).

 

[TamaJatu]

Japanese politics (and most of the Japanese focus tree) should be reworked. They're terribly oversimplified, specially when you compare it to the later regional DLCs, and their detail.

If any of the ultranationalist militarist factions should be considered as "Fascist" in the game, that would be the Kodoha, which is "Non Aligned" in the game, I don't know why.

Also, as others said before, they managed to portray Bulgaria as a Non-Aligned monarchy with different factions, and maybe that should be the best thing for Japan too. Maybe that kind of system should be exported to the rest of the (at least Major) Non-Aligned governments (just as the Senate mechanics of the US for the democracies... one can dream), allowing Japan to further delve into the path of the ultranationalist cliques (and the single party totalitarian regime of the Taisei Yokusankai) or a different parlamentarian focus which could evolve into a "Democracy" (in game terms), closer to the Allies.

That's exactly right!
Sadly, it is unlikely that Japan will be the target for the next DLC.
It will take years.
BUT, It should be resolved.

- 1936 Japanese general election newspaper(Asahi Shimbun)

 

[KaiserBismarckll]

I'm hardly an expert, but I always assumed it to mean that the Emperor is so incredibly respected and revered that there really isn't room for division in Japanese political society. Basically, the Emperor "leaned" "fascist" starting before 1939, so fascists have 100% popularity. The theory of party popularity = foreign alignment has made sense to me, but ultimately I disagree with it.

Don't get hung up on it - The idea that only 60% of Germany was onboard with Nazism in 1936 and no one was in favor of non-aligned is ridiculous, too.

 

[kimidf]

I think when the concepts of sub ideologies are introduced in the vanilla game, these commented inconsistencies could be fixed

 

[KaiserBismarckll]

I think when the concepts of sub ideologies are introduced in the vanilla game, these commented inconsistencies could be fixed

Do you think we'll ever get sub ideologies in vanilla apart from the mouseover localization?

My money's on no.

 

[kimidf]

I'm hardly an expert, but I always assumed it to mean that the Emperor is so incredibly respected and revered that there really isn't room for division in Japanese political society. Basically, the Emperor "leaned" "fascist" starting before 1939, so fascists have 100% popularity. The theory of party popularity = foreign alignment has made sense to me, but ultimately I disagree with it.

Don't get hung up on it - The idea that only 60% of Germany was onboard with Nazism in 1936 and no one was in favor of non-aligned is ridiculous, too.

I don't think Hirohito was really fascist but. Someone rather ultra-conservative influenced by closer circles and militarists with a clear ultra-nationalist and fascist tendency that many did and undo things without the consent of the emperor himself or distorted the emperor's orders for their benefit. And Hirohito did nothing to retify that policy until the last moment
We recall that Hirohito allowed himself to be allowed to go by the policy of fait accompli by the military as a step in the Manchuria Incident in the early 1930s where a part of the military leadership promoted the revolt to justify the invasion of the Chinese Manchu territory or famous Marco Polo incident that was instigated by the Japanese military for the Second Sino-Japanese War

 

[kimidf]

Do you think we'll ever get sub ideologies in vanilla apart from the mouseover localization?

My money's on no.

I do believe that we will get it one day because it is written on the road map. of the game for that very reason and they know it is a demand desired by the people.

 

[KaiserBismarckll]

I don't think Hirohito was really fascist but. Someone rather ultra-conservative influenced by closer circles and militarists with a clear ultra-nationalist and fascist tendency that many did and undo things without the consent of the emperor himself or distorted the emperor's orders for their benefit. And Hirohito did nothing to retify that policy until the last moment

I would argue that's not really important. If the psuedo-fascists can somehow convince Japan that the Emperor is on board with them, then the Emperor may as well be on board with them.

This creates a really weird system where whatever ideology that is popularly perceived to have the Emperor's blessing gets 100% party popularity.

 

[CrasherZZ]

I would argue that's not really important. If the psuedo-fascists can somehow convince Japan that the Emperor is on board with them, then the Emperor may as well be on board with them.

This creates a really weird system where whatever ideology that is popularly perceived to have the Emperor's blessing gets 100% party popularity.

Yes this is it, in effect.

I think there may be a widespread misconception about how much political power the emperor could wield. He basically endorsed whatever faction was the de facto winner and currently in control. The final step of the winning faction is always to get the "endorsement" of the emperor in order to legitimatize their rule. The shogunate was essentially the most powerful warlord who had control of Kyoto at the same time. The military faction that took control pre-WW2 was basically taking the role of the old shogunate. The emperor was not in the position to refuse to cooperate because it would have made no difference and would have endangered the existence of the imperial house. It would've been too risky to back one faction over another in case the favored one lost.

It wasn't the emperor who overthrew the Tokugawa shogunate. It was the rival factions who overthrew shogunate in the name of the emperor but the emperor himself did none of the work and so had no influence over the new ruling party. He only had to acknowledge their de facto victory.

Japanese politics is probably too "weird" to represent accurately in the game, so it's best to just abstract it. We're only looking at a 13 year period of a war game after all.

 

[KaiserBismarckll]

Yes this is it, in effect.

I think there may be a widespread misconception about how much political power the emperor could wield. He basically endorsed whatever faction was the de facto winner and currently in control. The final step of the winning faction is always to get the "endorsement" of the emperor in order to legitimatize their rule. The shogunate was essentially the most powerful warlord who had control of Kyoto at the same time. The military faction that took control pre-WW2 was basically taking the role of the old shogunate. The emperor was not in the position to refuse to cooperate because it would have made no difference and would have endangered the existence of the imperial house. It would've been too risky to back one faction over another in case the favored one lost.

It wasn't the emperor who overthrew the Tokugawa shogunate. It was the rival factions who overthrew shogunate in the name of the emperor but the emperor himself did none of the work and so had no influence over the new ruling party. He only had to acknowledge their de facto victory.

Japanese politics is probably too "weird" to represent accurately in the game, so it's best to just abstract it. We're only looking at a 13 year period of a war game after all.

Japanese Emperors, like most "ceremonial monarchs" were powerless only because they refused to use their power. Emperor Meiji actually used his absolute power and ran into little resistance. The "existence of the Imperial House" was never endangered. At any time Hirohito could have chosen to seize his birthright and rule absolutely.

 

[Pzt_Kami]

I don't like the added complexity came by recent dlc(s). I used to play Turkey and to some extent greece but not anymore thanks making them complex. This game's main focus is about War (as said many times by devs). At least major nations should remain less complex (if not simple) and be as accessable as possible. Lets have these types of complex management to remian only for minor nations

 

[kimidf]

I do not think I will rework the Japanese tree, but if I see it more plausible that later there would be a certain modification of its tree in the Yugoslav or Romanian style in BTB later .


I believe when sub-ideologies are inserted in the vanilla game, I create the struggle different political tendencies of Japan, of which those could be represented mainly through decisions very similar to the one that Japan itself currently has in military terrain in the primacy field of land army or the Marine.

In which there would be three tendencies, one would be the ultranationalist / imperialist of militarism, another pro-democratic western and finally another communist and depending on the power the most faction was dominating certain paths or approaches could not be unblocked if they had a certain similar majority of the North American tree

 

[kimidf]

I don't like the added complexity came by recent dlc(s). I used to play Turkey and to some extent greece but not anymore thanks making them complex. This game's main focus is about War (as said many times by devs). At least major nations should remain less complex (if not simple) and be as accessable as possible. Lets have these types of complex management to remian only for minor nations

Well, I do, since the historical reality was thus full of multiple interests and tendencies with ideas that are often contradictory or opposed even within totalitarian states in their struggle for power or maintaining their influence in the state.


We remember even in 1945 the Japanese state itself was deeply divided between the more moderate ones who advocated capitulating towards the allies and the most fanatics were willing to fight fanatically until the end without caring about the cost in human lives.,

Even Emperor Hirohito himself had to make the famous phrase of The Japanese surrender in a semi-clandestine way because he was afraid that the most fanatical sectors of the government would kidnap him or prevent the delivery of that message

The game must delve into these more complex questions as it progresses in its development as it happens in the other similar PDX games since they give much more flavor to the product


I think it was a great success and very interesting what the faction system for Greece, Bulgaria and Turkey was introduced in BTB and I think the next step is to introduce it gradually to the rest of the countries although each country could vary a little due to its particular characteristics. national