Why is it so easy to colonize?

[Lolofik]

Being able to colonize Celebes, for example, with Ethiopia is rather weird. There should be some restrictions based on your navy/what power you are. Colonial gameplay is overall not as fun and engaging as I would expect from a game set in the Victorian era. It would be more interesting if there was more scrambling and diplomatic consequences regarding colonization. I am in my first save as Austria and the first thing I did was pass a law that allowed me to colonize(for fun, I wanted to see how colonization works). After that it was a matter of a few clicks to start a colony. How would you make colonization more fun?

 

[Bearjuden]

How would you make colonization more fun?

A system of claims by all countries in a strategic region to try and maintain the balance of power and eating infamy to break these agreements would be both historical and provide more of an ongoing system to engage with rather than just having to be fast. It would also be more historical; while the Berlin Conference wasn't the sole moment when Africa was carved up (and is frankly a bit overplayed as such) it does neatly encapsulate all the GP agreements that led up to it which did matter quite a bit.

And of course it should also be financially expensive, for whoever is paying for the colonization. Making your government or pops really poor to pay for such a complicated venture shouldn't be a no-brainer.

 

[Ttrgw]

The concept of colonial distance needs to be introduced. Some people may think that since Britain was able to go to war with China in 1839, other countries should be able to go to war anywhere in the world. However, Britain at this time was a special country with outstanding naval power, colonies all over the world and the ability to take large numbers of troops out of India.

 

[Kyoumen]

The concept of colonial distance needs to be introduced. Some people may think that since Britain was able to go to war with China in 1839, other countries should be able to go to war anywhere in the world. However, Britain at this time was a special country with outstanding naval power, colonies all over the world and the ability to take large numbers of troops out of India.

Who couldn't? Belgium wasn't kicked out of the Congo by the natives, and Spain still held the Phillipines until 1898 despite being a basket case by then. Oman had Zanzibar, and the Ottomans still had influence in Indonesia (although wisely declined to intervene against Western powers when requested). China had functionally a colony in Borneo and tributaries all over the place.

A unified Ethiopia trying to go colonialist is more likely to be stopped by the Dutch or by the fact they had little to gain from it than by an arbitrary "Celebes is too far for you, sorry" hard limit. If you've got the strength and the naval ability to set the interest there, that is you already overcoming the limits of "you can't project power overseas".

 

[Fawr]

Who couldn't? Belgium wasn't kicked out of the Congo by the natives, and Spain still held the Phillipines until 1898 despite being a basket case by then. Oman had Zanzibar, and the Ottomans still had influence in Indonesia (although wisely declined to intervene against Western powers when requested). China had functionally a colony in Borneo and tributaries all over the place.

Historically WA was colonised by the British/Australians, NZ by the British too, Chile and Argentia colonised their piece of south America, while Japan and Russia were the only ones realistically interested in Hokkaido and Sakhalin.

In-game my view is that they are too easy for a far distant player (or even the AI) to get first. There was certainly a common factor that in all these cases a nearby country got them, suggesting that distance did play a role.

I'd propose a speed effect so that anyone can colonise anywhere, but you get bonuses near where you are. The AI should know this and focus its attention appropriately. Colonial vassals could extend your reach (think of NZ). That effect could be reduced by technology so that by the time we are talking about the Belgian Congo or German Bismark Archipelago the penalties have been removed.

 

[durbal]

Not having any internal transportation or logistics cost over distance is partially to blame here. It's not that Ethiopia shouldn't be able to colonize Celebes but that doing so is equivalent to colonizing all the stuff right on their border.

 

[paulxiep]

Not having any internal transportation or logistics cost over distance is partially to blame here. It's not that Ethiopia shouldn't be able to colonize Celebes but that doing so is equivalent to colonizing all the stuff right on their border.

Maybe wrong but I always assumed number of convoys required for trade / market connection was based on distance.

 

[Lolofik]

I don't have a problem with Ethiopia being able to colonize per se, but it should definitely have economic and diplomatic consequences. And the process of the colonization should be more fun, rather than just watching a bar fill up after clicking a button.

 

[MfgLuckbot]

Maybe wrong but I always assumed number of convoys required for trade / market connection was based on distance.

It is.

The issue is that convoy cost for small colonies is neglectible, and local hubs don't matter. It's the same cost to connect to NZ for britain as it's for prussia, despite the brits having established ports in australia already wich make for easy collection points. The only things that matter are the distance to your capital and the infrastructure need of the oversea provinces.

It's also weird that port locations don't matter. Like, I can put anchorages everywhere and just stack all my convoy production in a gigantic array of ports on greenland

Though I don't know how this could be fixed without making the supply system incredibly complicated. If computational power wasn't a limit I'd love to see some "transport bandwidth" limit dictated by ports, wich force you to build an actual network, and gain benefits from lower trade volumes by producing required goods locally instead of shipping them to the colony.

 

[durbal]

Maybe wrong but I always assumed number of convoys required for trade / market connection was based on distance.

Convoys for market connection?

 

[MfgLuckbot]

Convoys for market connection?

Yup. Every point of infrastructure you (or custom union junior partners) use in states that have no land connection to your capital cost convoys. Just very little unless it's a massive colony that is also very far away.

 

[Meneye]

There's four major issues with colonisation right now, which make it both easy and lackluster.

1. Colonies aren't as expensive as they should be. Their cost was a significant problem, so much so that Britain eventually became reluctant to keep expanding overseas.

2. The biggest roadblock we do have towards colonisation, the native uprising, is a benefit for some reason.

3. Once colonies are established they're way too stable. There needs to be some form of defiance, the colonized weren't just passive subjects throughout the timeframe.

4. There are only economic reasons for establishing a colony right now, but in reality there were political reasons as well. The whole thing about Germany wanting "a place in the sun" practically defined their foriegn policy, for example. This one isn't that necessary to portray, but even a minor prestige boost would be welcome.


Fixing any of these would make colonies feel less like free land, and more like an important part of an empire.

 

[Ttrgw]

I cannot explain why this happened, but most of the colonization of Africa and Asia was done by a very few European countries.
Overseas colonization should not be a way for small countries to rise, but a game for a very limited number of maritime powers only.

 

[Stelaria]

Honestly, I think a better question is why, say, Kikuyu is more interactable at game start by France than by any of the Ethiopian princedoms, or Celebes more interactable by the Netherlands than by Tidore.

It's really bizarre, honestly - I understand how it feeds into replicating the overall feel and power dynamics of the period in-game, but it's just too artificial.

 

[paulxiep]

4. There are only economic reasons for establishing a colony right now, but in reality there were political reasons as well. The whole thing about Germany wanting "a place in the sun" practically defined their foriegn policy, for example. This one isn't that necessary to portray, but even a minor prestige boost would be welcome.

There is actually an 'a place in the sun' country modifier that you get when you colonize enough of Africa. It gives 100 permanent prestige.

 

[JohnR31415]

You could also limit the distance that you can colonize by ship tech and existing colonies.

For example if Portugal didn't have any colonies they could only reach to Guinea-Bissau with Men O War tech, then with that colony they could reach Angola, then Mozambique, then onto India and China.

This would allow powers with far reaching colonies to have the range to colonize anywhere, but smaller powers would have to build up colonies to increase their range.

 

[Bearjuden]

This would allow powers with far reaching colonies to have the range to colonize anywhere, but smaller powers would have to build up colonies to increase their range.

I'm not 100% sure this is historical though. As a matter of naval warfare, coalling stations were very important to chain together points of projection, but Belgium didn't chain together colonies until it reached the Congo. It just went directly to the Congo. I don't think they could easily engage in naval warfare between Belgium in the Congo, but they were perfectly capable of maintaining the colony itself.

Germany similarly didn't need to connect anything. It founded its first colony in the Pacific in the first year it had any colonies. the fact that they were colonizing the other side of the planet didn't seem like much of a limitation.

 

[hamburgertrain]

I'm not 100% sure this is historical though. As a matter of naval warfare, coalling stations were very important to chain together points of projection, but Belgium didn't chain together colonies until it reached the Congo. It just went directly to the Congo. I don't think they could easily engage in naval warfare between Belgium in the Congo, but they were perfectly capable of maintaining the colony itself.

Germany similarly didn't need to connect anything. It founded its first colony in the Pacific in the first year it had any colonies. the fact that they were colonizing the other side of the planet didn't seem like much of a limitation.

Im curious how much of this was technology based, once steamers with screw propellers,the triple-expansion engine etc became the main way of transoceanic travel in the 1870s the distance limits became much more trivial. The era of New Imperialism really only picked up after the 1870s, and these innovations were certainly part of, but by no means entirely the reason.

 

[Ttrgw]

I think the main reason why Belgium and Germany were able to establish colonies so far away was because they belonged to western societies. They could learn from the pioneers about colonization, and they could rely somewhat on Britain and France for the infrastructure to maintain their colonies.

 

[BPZ1941]

Because in reality colonies were expensive. But the only cost we see is shipping, and shipping isn't that expensive anyway. But that isn't only about colonies, it's also about conquest. No area in this game is actually too much trouble to be worth it once major/regional powers have been driven out.