Why is it so easy for the HRE to raise Crown Authority?

[Crater122]

Invariably, within ten or so years of the game, the HRE is at medium crown authority. Not only is this completely ridiculous, it's incredibly frustrating, because it makes expansion a massive pain in the ass. It should be nigh impossible for the emperor to increase crown authority, yet it seems to pass a few days after he suggests it. Is there any way to mod the game so this doesn't happen? It's seriously ruining all of the games I try to play as a count in the HRE.

 

[unmerged(464016)]

Invariably, within ten or so years of the game, the HRE is at medium crown authority. Not only is this completely ridiculous, it's incredibly frustrating, because it makes expansion a massive pain in the ass. It should be nigh impossible for the emperor to increase crown authority, yet it seems to pass a few days after he suggests it. Is there any way to mod the game so this doesn't happen? It's seriously ruining all of the games I try to play as a count in the HRE.

Yeah its stupid. I think they did something with the AI to stop them from putting Primo in as soon as HRE hits high CA , but even then the HRE tends to hit primo by 1200 in every game I have played (which is really annoying).


I disabled the CA restrictions on wars (including vassal wars). At first I tried throwing heavier relations penalties onto High and Abs Ca (literally doubled the hit) and the emperor is still able to rush High ca. As soon as a new heir arrives , its pretty much inevitable.

To me having a Primo HRE emperor , and not allowing vassal wars is not only boring to play with , but incredibly at odds with the culture in the empire historically. I'm not usually one to demand historical accuracy (this is a game after all) , but the historical reality is literally the funnest implementation I have tried. Having vassal wars and having the Emperor title swap around is fun and sometimes unpredictable.

 

[whosthebestcop]

+20 for elective and free elective +10 to all vassals who have clergy as a vassal and +25 to all clergy. So the HRE Emperor usually has to start acting like a tyrant before his German de jure vassals hate him enough to vote no.

At least in my current game the HRE got up to absolute but switched succession law to primogeniture so now even all of his German vassals hate him.

I kind of almost think the HRE needs its own separate succession law

 

[Keanon]

I think it's even weirder how people say yes, but still get angry over it.

Shouldn't it be more like them saying no, because they'd be angry over it?

 

[Trunting]

That would be an issue for a HRE DLC. In history, the things which are abstracted as crown authority in the game werent that strong in the HRE, at least after 1250, when the Emperor hadn't enough power to forbid ervery vassal to fight against another one. There could be an extra relations penalty for the HRE Emperor to raise crown authority.

 

[Melange_Thief]

I think it would be simpler to have vassals in general be less willing to raise CA. A more difficult but more rewarding solution would be for the AI to approve or reject higher CA based on not just on relation, but also on how much they would lose/gain from an increase (for instance, a small vassal right between two large ones would vote for Medium CA, because their decreased ability to scheme and their increased levy obligations is a fair trade for the security). Furthermore, perhaps switching from elective succession should require the electors to vote in favor of the new form of succession, if that's at all possible.

EDIT: Also, vassals which vote for a change in CA should not only be not angry at the change in CA, they should have the regular opinion malus associated with that level of CA negated for a few years.

 

[Hootieleece]

Yeah that -30 malus for raised CA should kick in as soon as it is suggested.......thus slowing the zombie vote a bit.

Since 1.07 I have not seen HRE change to primo.I think Faction Wars which can happen regardless of CA, are helping here.

In the HRE changing to Primo should be a Decision that requires and "spends" high amounts of Prestige and Piety.(2000 Prestige,2000 Piety,1000 gold)The reason I would want the Prestige and Piety spent is that those amounts negate the maximum bonus those confer and coupled with the Changed Succession Law Malus(-50) would guarantee a Rebellion/Civil War over the issue.Which is realistic I think.

 

[Gingerninja]

Perhaps change a bit on how one votes. I have absolutely no idea how to change my vote, yet the AI seems able to change from no to yes, but not vice versa.

 

[Talq]

They have fiddled with some of the UI at some points, so the choice is now yes or ignore.

Upping the relations they need to say yes would be a good start.

Inserting a requirement that the emperor/king be on the throne for 10 years would also slow things slightly (you shouldn't be at absolute crown authority in 40 years, because your kings keep raising crown authority then having 'mysterious accidents').

 

[Ithvan]

How about the usual -30 opinion malus when the emperor asks you to vote, not after the law has been passed? Something along the lines of "tries to curb our rights". That would make it much harder to raise CA.

 

[Mods]

When I played as a count in the HRE in 1.7 I just started a lower crow authority faction whenever it got to medium, succeeded in lowering it 3 times (once even without bloodshed)
So it's not that bad, just don't be afraid to fight your liege!

 

[mr_human_555]

When I played as a count in the HRE in 1.7 I just started a lower crow authority faction whenever it got to medium, succeeded in lowering it 3 times (once even without bloodshed)
So it's not that bad, just don't be afraid to fight your liege!

My experience on this is that when I started a faction (elective succession in Mauretania, I'm a blobbing count from Mali, so not inside HRE), I got ~140% faction power just by myself. Within days my liege put me into a prison :sad:

I suggest you also be careful with factions. AI liege isn't smart enough to scheme, so they instead imprison you :rofl:

 

[Mods]

My experience on this is that when I started a faction (elective succession in Mauretania, I'm a blobbing count from Mali, so not inside HRE), I got ~140% faction power just by myself. Within days my liege put me into a prison :sad:

I suggest you also be careful with factions. AI liege isn't smart enough to scheme, so they instead imprison you :rofl:

hah! bad luck I guess (or good luck on my part?)

 

[Rangergxi]

Not like the HRE lasted until Napoleon and dominated Europe for many centuries.. <.<
It took Wilhelm the Great and Napoleon to take that motha down.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

In my current game the AI HRE is at Absolute CA and is Primo. :sad:

 

[vitek69]

Not like the HRE lasted until Napoleon and dominated Europe for many centuries.. <.<
It took Wilhelm the Great and Napoleon to take that motha down.

How did the HRE in any way dominate Europe after like 1300 or so? Also, it wasn't a question of taking down the HRE, it was a question of taking down the emperor (Austria), which was 100 times harder than taking down a bunch of always-bickering principalities/free cities

 

[Lwantssugar]

Not like the HRE lasted until Napoleon and dominated Europe for many centuries.. <.<
It took Wilhelm the Great and Napoleon to take that motha down.

If the Kaiser had any authority left by 1700 do you think he would let Prussia push around the other German states and the king eventually declare himself Kaiser as well? The Emperors realm had shrunk to Austria and Hungary while the states that were nominally his vassals had broken off and disregarded his traditional authority over them. Yes the HRE wasn't dissolved until 1803 or so, but it was effectively powerless by the end of the renaissance and the beginning of the Early Modern period

 

[Ruwaard]

IMHO that's not just an issue for the HRE and thus IMHO just limiting the HRE would be wrong too. In 1066 the HRE, France, England etc. could all plausibly end differently than they did at the date the game ends; this is my biggest concern if the HRE is unnecessary restricted more than others, which can influence a HRE game.

 

[whosthebestcop]

i don't think HRE should be restricted in anyway other then any other realm. But they might need their own succession law. Or perhaps all empires need a separate election law.

Actually if HRE ever switches from elective they usually have non stop faction wars. It is a 20 point swing. Elective gives you +20 and primogeniture gives you no vassal opinion modifier. Plus primogeniture now creates pretenders to the HRE title. So now there is a huge increase in succession wars.

Especially if a player perhaps gets the heir excommunicated. They cant just vote for someone else now.

It actually doesn't make sense for any AI empire to ever raise crown authority just to switch to primogeniture. It removes their bonus. Gets them a negative modifier for the new higher authority and now creates succession wars and lower crown authority wars plus non de jure liege wars.

 

[Rakonas]

The game just needs to implement the Investiture Controversy, which was what historically prevented the HRE from becoming centralized. Free Investiture also happens to contribute to the HRE's ability to pass reforms.