Trotsky gave negative percentage(-40% IIRC) to the efficiency of the factories, but that penalty went away after the Yerman Empire annexed the USSR.
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Why is German industry so much more powerful than allied industry?
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Trotsky gave negative percentage(-40% IIRC) to the efficiency of the factories, but that penalty went away after the Yerman Empire annexed the USSR.
When daniel looked at the intelligence on it the USSR had like third the factories that Germany did.
That is still a lot of factories the capitulation of the USSR gave to Germany.
Germany owns most of Europe, plus they annexed the USSR, of course they have a monster of an industry.
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Quite true, but probably not a good sign for game balance. There is supposed to be some sort of trade-off there but factories are too easy to build. What is the payoff time for a factory build, considering the bonuses to construction? My impression was that the great increases in military production were supposed to come from converting civilian to military factories, not filling every potential slot in record time.
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You have to keep in mind that WWII was a time with an incredible speed of innovation in technology and warfare.
My point is, I wouldn't count on the industrial capacity of the countries inbetween Germany and the USSR, they were too far behind in technology and infrastructure. For example, Poland used horses for transport not vehicles for their army, so they won't have much of a production capacity in vehicles even after the germans occupied their territory. You can't build up factories and production lines with all the required infrastructure behind it in occupied territory and during wartime in only six years the second world war lasted, this is simply not credible.
Still, I would rather have a game which is not completely historically accurate but balanced and fun to play, which is what Pdx is trying to do, I believe.
My point is, I wouldn't count on the industrial capacity of the countries inbetween Germany and the USSR, they were too far behind in technology and infrastructure. For example, Poland used horses for transport not vehicles for their army, so they won't have much of a production capacity in vehicles even after the germans occupied their territory. You can't build up factories and production lines with all the required infrastructure behind it in occupied territory and during wartime in only six years the second world war lasted, this is simply not credible.
Still, I would rather have a game which is not completely historically accurate but balanced and fun to play, which is what Pdx is trying to do, I believe.
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It would certainly be interesting to see how much of that industry is from the USSR.
From the perspective of someone who plays as the UK a lot those estimated numbers posted earlier look very scary. Game balance has always made it possible to win the war as the UK without any proper help from the useless AI, but the difference in industrial might looks too vast in WWW for that possibility.
From the perspective of someone who plays as the UK a lot those estimated numbers posted earlier look very scary. Game balance has always made it possible to win the war as the UK without any proper help from the useless AI, but the difference in industrial might looks too vast in WWW for that possibility.
Are these numbers really realistic? I mean, did the UK actually triple it's overall industrial capacity between 1936 and 1944? Or did it have a modest increase overall and mostly shift a lot of industrial capacity from civilian to military ends?
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Here are the starting figures for the UK from the last DD: 19 dock, 34 civ, 14 military = 67 total.
Here are the minimum estimates in 1944, from what Adam posted: 49 dock, 101 civ, 211 military = 361 total.
So I was wrong in the above post. It wasn't a 200% increase, it was a 440% increase in overall industrial potential, plus whatever per factory bonuses apply.
Does this not strike anyone as rather a lot? Factories are too cheap and easy to come by.
Here are the minimum estimates in 1944, from what Adam posted: 49 dock, 101 civ, 211 military = 361 total.
So I was wrong in the above post. It wasn't a 200% increase, it was a 440% increase in overall industrial potential, plus whatever per factory bonuses apply.
Does this not strike anyone as rather a lot? Factories are too cheap and easy to come by.
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So, how is that so much different from Germany? A significant portion of Germany's transport was done by horse-drawn carts and wagons, and the captured Polish transport figured heavily into Germany's logistics within the Soviet invasion. Rails got the materials to the general area, and those carts and wagons, plus a few trucks, got it from the trains to the troops. Germany played up its cutting edge motorized equipment for propaganda purposes, but they were nowhere near as modernized across the board as they led the public to believe.
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Look here i have numbers: http://www.paradoxian.org/hoi2wiki/index.php/GDP_statistics
Its a comparison of wartime GDPs of some countries. If you look at 1941, you see that the US ($1094 billion) produces roughly as much as Germany, France, Italy, Austria and the USSR combined ($1074 billion). If you throw in scandinavia and the other countries Daniel's Germans have occupied it is perfectly logical for him to have more IC than the USA.
Its a comparison of wartime GDPs of some countries. If you look at 1941, you see that the US ($1094 billion) produces roughly as much as Germany, France, Italy, Austria and the USSR combined ($1074 billion). If you throw in scandinavia and the other countries Daniel's Germans have occupied it is perfectly logical for him to have more IC than the USA.
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I think the build up for the UK has been massive. I can't remember what the build up of IC was in HoI3 but if you take the actual increase in industry available I think it was even bigger then 440%. I assume Germany as the other human controlled nation has done a big build up as well as all the captured industry.
He has about 20% more IC then the US and UK combined, the only area they are ahead is in dockyards. That seems like a little much even with the US getting a nerf from it's historical industry for game balance reasons.
The question is why does the game make such a huge buildup possible? The UK can't multiply its base IC by a factor of more than 5 in HoI3. There's just not enough free industry. In the WWW, building factories looks way too cheap and easy.
Factory count in HoI4 is not the same total military production. As I understood it, the civilian IC was supposed to be used for trade and consumer goods, then converted largely to military as the economy shifted to a war footing. Multiplying total industrial capacity by more than 5x during 8 years while also building up for an prosecuting a global war is just impossible. Or it should be.
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True for BASE IC not effective IC, more proper would be to look at "production figures". With the US and UK producing a lot of Naval Stuff and the US producing gargantuan planes, they naturally produced lesser infantry but if you look at their infantry- they do have a lot of motorised, TDs etc just in smaller numbers.
Problem is with deployment-
Italy and Spain or the Balkans or Syria/Turkey or Scandinavia - - none are ideal TANK/MOT country.
Ideal would be a full fledged Normandy landing with 100+ divisions once instead of doing 5-20 divisions strong attacks in 6 different places and losing all those troops.
Yes the UK can't multiply it's base IC by five in HoI3, doubling the base IC might be possible if you spend the whole game building IC. The penalties to their actual IC mean that by the time the war starts and with no IC building you could go from around 90 actual useable IC in 1936 (it actually dips even lower to 80 when Edward VIII becomes king) to around 300. So it's not as big as I first thought but still a 300%+ increase.
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Doesn't Germany even have the horse strategic resource in HOI3 to represent her reliance on pack animals?
EDIT: Yep, it's in Oldenburg.
Maybe they're just borrowing Polish horses.
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if you basicly controll whole of europe and if your borders basicly extend to china then you will have an very large industrial base of course. You also need to keep in mind that the allied industry runs more efficient compared to the german one, since daniel needed to mobilize earlier, which means less people working in the factories. The main problem for germany will always be the resources, or to be more specific the oil (especially if iran basicly steals the russian oil and keeps it for themself
)It should be pointed if Germany would control it would look for new resources esp. oil,rare metals. The vast amount of resources would made Germany industry to boom.The technology would need some time to fill up efficiency and then they would be ahead in every field by 1945. Britain would surely fall because Germans could concentrate all forces to it and defending Japan. But some policies of Germany should change to make conquered countries believe they would live better lives(higher standards).
It is hard to judge much from that, since when Germany surrendered, Germany went out of existance as nation. And Italy was fighting civil war. French nation was shattered. Soviets occuppied a lot of Europe.
So naturally USA, being safe in American continent, would temporaly have bigger part of world GDB.
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Not really - Germany didn't just vapourise. West and East Germany were created and began producing stuff.
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