Shouldnt it be independent? Historically it was an independent free city under the protection of the League of Nations.
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Why is Danzig polish?
- Thread starter Pashahlis
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Implementation of this city is useless, the same considers memel(klajpeda) teritority.
This nation would be impossible to make some changes in WWII
This nation would be impossible to make some changes in WWII
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Because it being an independent nation would be inaccurate and offer no gameplay benefit, indeed it could hinder gameplay as it would basically require that Poland guarantees it in order to get the war started.
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If you consider Danzig a independent free city then something is wrong. It was anything but independent. It was essentially part of poland even tho it was independent on paper. Poland had full right to develop it and access to the ports and infrastructure. It was only created to give poland access to a well-sized seaport. As Aries666 said it would also conflict with the outbreak of the war, since it would make it much more complicated than it needs to be.
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Then why Germany asked Poland about it ? Why they started a war over it ?
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They didn't.
The war started because of Polish 'atrocities' such as the attack on the Sender Gleiwitz.
No declaration of war, just a 'police action'.
There were negotiation schemes about the Polish corridor and Danzig going to Germany and a guarantue for the German minority.
But those never went anywhere.
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Are you joking (quotation marks) ?
It's well know that it was an operation organized by the SS-Sturmbannführer Alfred Naujocks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident
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I'm pretty sure he knows the Germans did it, hence the quotes. He's probably comparing it to something like the Gulf of Tonkin Incident.
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Well the common interpretation is that the U.S. somehow faked the attacks at Tonkin in order to justify an intervention in Vietnam. In reality, there were two separate incidents. First, there was a very real skirmish between North Vietnamese patrol boats and an American destroyer. Then, a couple days later, the destroyer thought it detected another oncoming attack, but this ended up being a radar ghost. Nevertheless, the whole affair was blamed on the Vietnamese and it became a pretext for greater intervention.
In any case, I agree with the user who said representing Danzig as an independent TAG would not be accurate or good for gameplay.
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Danzig was not really independent. It was closer to autonomous. Regardless of what you call it was was still within the country and sovereignty of Poland.
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Yes, Gleiwitz was a fake.
That is not my point though.
The official line is/was that Germany started the war because of 'Polish agression' (again quotations because it is a quote).
As for the status of Danzig:
If you and i rent an apartment together it belongs to neither or both of us, but if i want my girlfriend to move in i still need your consent.
To put it another way:
The League of Nations garantiert Danzig, Poland and Britain provided the muscle, but Germany garantued all Germans everywhere.
Per the doctrine of the self-determination of the people Danzig already was German (something like 3% Poles/Kaschuben in 1923).
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I'm all for colour in the game, but I really struggle to see the point of adding Danzig to the game as an independent state - it would sit on the map doing absolutely nothing before getting auto-annexed by Germany on declaration of war against Poland. And this is even assuming that characterising it as an independent state makes sense historically.
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But Danzig's exterior policies and relationships were under Poland's responsibility.
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Yes, but Poland '...undertook not to conclude any international agreements regarding Danzig without previous consultation with the Free City's government'.
Yes, there is control of Danzig in Poland, same as there is in Germany (the free cities government was solidly NSDAP since 1933) but neither controlled enough to claim that they owned it.
I understand that an independet Danzig is too much effort for too little gameplay gain, but i would still maintain that in actuality Danzig was not a part of Poland (and if it is modelled as a piece of Poland it needs a higher Unrest).
Yes, there is control of Danzig in Poland, same as there is in Germany (the free cities government was solidly NSDAP since 1933) but neither controlled enough to claim that they owned it.
I understand that an independet Danzig is too much effort for too little gameplay gain, but i would still maintain that in actuality Danzig was not a part of Poland (and if it is modelled as a piece of Poland it needs a higher Unrest).
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IIRC PDS considers Danzig to not be independent because they don't control their own foreign affairs. Poland controlled their foreign affairs and only had to consult with the Free City's government. FYI consult does not mean the the Free City could veto any agreement that Poland made in their name, it just means Poland has to tell them (not ask them) first.
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That makes sense (higher unrest), but then it should be be the same for all regions with a locally sizeable foreign minority, like Belarusians and Ukrainians in Eastern Poland, Hungarians in Western Rumania, Slavs in Northern Greece, Germans in Northern Italy or Alsace or Sudetenland, and many more minorities in other countries as well.
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But Memel was annexed by Lithuania in 1923. So it wouldn´t be shown in the game
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I don't know why Danzig shouldn't be independent? It is in DH and the war breaks out without any problems. Even though it is just a cosmetical thing. It can't really do much, but they modeled events like the winning of the nazi party in 1939.
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