When I was browsing decisions, I found out that you're allowed to form Poland as Danzig (a releasable nation from the Teutonic Order in 1444) despite having Prussian as your main culture. What's the reasoning behing it?
Why is Danzig allowed to form Poland?
- Thread starter Matihood1
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Well, Danzig was a Polish city for a long time, it had a lot of German(ic?) population, but pretty much every city in Poland did. Danzig had a weird status in PLC, or it least it wanted to have it, but for most of the game period it was in Polish hands and it probably considered itself as a Polish city. Hence the ability to form Poland.
I saw a Danzigian Prussia once!Has it ever happened in any game anyone has played?
Just curious.
Not a poland tho
I think the original Prussian people where "Polish" (West Slavic) rather then "German"?
So remove the Teutonic overlords and they are "Polish" again?
Edit: Wikipedia says Prussian was a "West Baltic" language.
So remove the Teutonic overlords and they are "Polish" again?
Edit: Wikipedia says Prussian was a "West Baltic" language.
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The city was taken over by the Teutons from the Samborides, nominally vassals of the kingdom of Poland (which at the time was in a weird state - partially under the king of Bohemia, partially split between smaller duchies) in the early 1300s. Beforehand most of the population was either Polish or Kashubian, but the city has greatly grown under the Teutons. While at the beginning of the game majority of the population was German, the city kept these large minorities. Following the Thirteen Years War, which took place shortly after the starting point of EU4, the city became part of Polish Crownlands together with the rest of West Prussia and the Poles quickly became a majority. While the city had a sizable German population, it wasn't much bigger of a percentage than in most other Polish cities, especially in this area.
At some point in the timeframe it became considered such a vital part of Poland that during the Second Partition Frederick the Great didn't incorporate the city into Prussia, allowing the Poles to keep it.
tl;dr It had a large Polish population in 1444, was Polish long before the Teutons took it and became an important Polish city again pretty early in the timeframe.
At some point in the timeframe it became considered such a vital part of Poland that during the Second Partition Frederick the Great didn't incorporate the city into Prussia, allowing the Poles to keep it.
tl;dr It had a large Polish population in 1444, was Polish long before the Teutons took it and became an important Polish city again pretty early in the timeframe.
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Polish population in Danzig was massacred by Teutonics in 1308.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_takeover_of_Danzig_(Gdańsk)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_takeover_of_Danzig_(Gdańsk)
- the raisin is that you can form Glorious Prussia or Glorious Germany with most Glorious national ideas - Polish ones. Honor!
Well tbh you don't have to play Danzig for that. Play Poland and flip to Saxon culture. Or do it as Silesia, much more legit as you start out with Saxon provinces.
Culture flipping is gamey as hell. IMHO OFC Not to mention that with culture flipping you can form whatever you want, but in case with Danzig-Poland-Prussia it is absolutely legit and natural process of nation building.
Not to mention that with culture flipping you can form whatever you want, but in case with Danzig-Poland-Prussia it is absolutely legit and natural process of nation building.
I don’t know if a sense of national identity was developed enough for many places to feel like that before the late 18th/19th centuries, let alone a multiethnic, Hanseatic city like Danzig.
You're confusing Prussian with "Old Prussian". Old Prussian was the Slavic culture that existed in the region before the northern crusades. Prussian (as in the game) is the German culture that developed after.
Well, to be honest Prussian culture is a mix of German and Old Prussian culture, so that's not a completely wrong assumption. That's like English being a mix of French overlords and Saxon people, Prussian is a mix of German and Pruthenian/Old Prussian.
Not really. The region experienced heavy germanization policies and most people there were Old Prussian only in genetic and ancestral sense, but considered themselves German more than anything else.
Oh right, I just assumed the lands of the Teutonic Knights where pretty comparable to those of the Livonian order at the time.
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Wikipedia says that it has been a quite multicultural city for the whole timeframe covered by eu4:
"Beside the large numbers of German-speakers, whose elites sometimes distinguished their German dialect as Pomerelian the city was home to a large number of Polish-speaking Poles, Jewish Poles, Latvian Speakers, Flemings and Dutch. In addition, a number of Scots took refuge or migrated to and received citizenship in the city."
Interestingly, this seems to have changed considerably over the course of the 19th century, leading to a census from 1923 that shows a whopping 95% of the population saying that German is their first language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_City_of_Danzig, quoting: Mason, John Brown (1946). The Danzig Dilemma, A Study in Peacemaking by Compromise. Stanford University Press.)
A friend who lives there and is even more of a history buff than me. I can ask him about his exact sources, if he provides them I'll edit this post.
Old Prussians were not Slavic and possibly never lived in Gdansk, as the archeological evidence of Baltic cultures in Gdansk are non existent to my knowledge.