Why is Armenian an accepted culture in QQ in 1444?

[Roxas15]

The Ottoman census records show that the regions were predominantly Turkish at around the start of the game. The Greek population began to revive in the 17th century, and probably didn't become a majority until well after that. The 19th century is not the 15th.

i would love to see that source. Ottoman census didnt record ethnicity, it recorded religion. as far as i know the first ottoman census was during the reign of mahmut II. which was in early 19th century.

 

[chegitz guevara]

The Ottoman census records show that the regions were predominantly Turkish at around the start of the game.

I think you may be mistaken.

First, the Ottomans recorded people according to their "millet," e.g., their religion. There was an Armenian millet, but that referred to the church, although we can assume there's a very strong overlap.

Second, the Ottomans didn't control this region until after the battle of Chaldiran, roughly 70 years after the beginning of the game.

Of course, there was a lot of migration away from and back to various regions during the game time--for example, Little Armenia (which you may be thinking of), aka Cilicia, aka Taurus, aka Ramazan--so it makes it difficult.

 

[allfath3r]

Didn't notice that since it disappears after the worthless 10K separatists pop up on a mountain fort. It still shouldn't be an accepted culture.

That's not how base unrest works. Base unrest ticks down slowly over time, much like autonomy.

 

[chegitz guevara]

That's not how base unrest works. Base unrest ticks down slowly over time, much like autonomy.

Correct, although after the revolt pops, there's a refractory period before it can pop again.

 

[Tufto]

i would love to see that source. Ottoman census didnt record ethnicity, it recorded religion. as far as i know the first ottoman census was during the reign of mahmut II. which was in early 19th century.

Ottoman censuses began in the early 16th century.

I'll refer you to some of Chamboozer's old posts which I dug up on the matter regarding the specifics/sources, since he's an actual expert on the matter whereas I am not. If those don't satisfy you and you really still want me to find some academic works covering it, I'll try to look up the ones I found last time this subject came up.

I think you may be mistaken.

First, the Ottomans recorded people according to their "millet," e.g., their religion. There was an Armenian millet, but that referred to the church, although we can assume there's a very strong overlap.

Second, the Ottomans didn't control this region until after the battle of Chaldiran, roughly 70 years after the beginning of the game.

Of course, there was a lot of migration away from and back to various regions during the game time--for example, Little Armenia (which you may be thinking of), aka Cilicia, aka Taurus, aka Ramazan--so it makes it difficult.

Look at the post I originally quoted- it was referring to western Anatolia, not Armenia .

 

[chegitz guevara]

Look at the post I originally quoted- it was referring to western Anatolia, not Armenia .

but, you didn't quote anything

 

[Tufto]

but, you didn't quote anything

I quoted hitchens...

 

[Roxas15]

Ottoman censuses began in the early 16th century.

I'll refer you to some of Chamboozer's old posts which I dug up on the matter regarding the specifics/sources, since he's an actual expert on the matter whereas I am not. If those don't satisfy you and you really still want me to find some academic works covering it, I'll try to look up the ones I found last time this subject came up.

"The Ottoman census records show that the regions were predominantly Turkish at around the start of the game." Thats what u said.
First, Chamboozer talked about Izmir, right? He refers to the dissertation by Olnon. I would like to note that its about 1 city, not the rural areas, not the other cities surrounding Izmir.

"Accurate demographical data are not available for the bulk of Ottoman territories prior to the first modern Ottoman censuses of the 19th century. This has posed considerable problems for socio-economic historiography, but these have been partially overcome by the creative use of Ottoman tax registers (tahrir defters). Unfortunately, the inventory of the tapu tahrir-series (abbreviated as TT) in the Ottoman archives lists few such registers for the 17th century." p. 47.

The problem u and Chamboozer have is that u talk about regions while the "tax registers" only reflect the towns ethnical composition.

"The other example, which I know rather better, is Western Anatolia and in particular Izmir." thats what Chamboozer said. Cut the first part and only leave "in particular Izmir" and i agree.
Nonetheless i wouldnt want to change EU4's current cultural situation In the province Izmir. I just wanted to point out the urban/rural disparity and the lack of rural census.
The migration theories which use certain events as the conquest of timur for its explanaition are on my opinion only speculations.

 

[chegitz guevara]

I quoted hitchens...

Weird. I don't see it.