QQ shahs heavily persecuted the Armenians and ravaged their lands.
If anything they should have bonus liberty desire.
@Trin Tragula
If anything they should have bonus liberty desire.
@Trin Tragula
Why is Armenian an accepted culture in QQ in 1444?
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Because QQ fractures all the time even now with their buffs to stability. They start with like 38% religious unity and just collapse in AI hands frequently.
Let's play nice OK? Calling people hateful for no good reason is no way to behave.
Anyway,
I'm sure it's simply game balance and not for any historical reason. QQ simply starts with a lot of Armenian lands.
Anyway,
I'm sure it's simply game balance and not for any historical reason. QQ simply starts with a lot of Armenian lands.
You just failed to notice the whole Armenian region under QQ has a mysterious "base" unrest of 10.0 at the game starts.
Or more logically it's about map and gameplay changes that have affected the Middle East in the recent patch. I don't think I've made a single thread about Ottos maybe ever.
Didn't notice that since it disappears after the worthless 10K separatists pop up on a mountain fort. It still shouldn't be an accepted culture.
I usually see them thrive, but whatever.
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They usually thrive for a little while during their great leader. But then they fall behind once they've lost him.
weren't most of them driven out by timurs invasion? i think they started to return in the 1500-1600's at some point, but don't quote me on it
1) 'accepted' culture is a game mechanic, which could conceivably include 'figured out a way to suppress'.
2) there's no mechanic to prevent QQ to accept Armenian as a culture after game start.
3) it's impolite, and a bad debate tactic, to attack the person who is making a statement rather than addressing their statement. There's a name for it - it's called an 'ad hominem' attack, and it shows weakness in the person who makes it, because it suggests they cannot win the debate directly. Also, it can earn you disciplinary action on the forum.
2) there's no mechanic to prevent QQ to accept Armenian as a culture after game start.
3) it's impolite, and a bad debate tactic, to attack the person who is making a statement rather than addressing their statement. There's a name for it - it's called an 'ad hominem' attack, and it shows weakness in the person who makes it, because it suggests they cannot win the debate directly. Also, it can earn you disciplinary action on the forum.
The Ottoman census records show that the regions were predominantly Turkish at around the start of the game. The Greek population began to revive in the 17th century, and probably didn't become a majority until well after that. The 19th century is not the 15th.
This has been brought up numerous times on these fora. Demographic changes are not always linear movements accorded solely by the ethnicity and religion of the ruling power, and there is no reason to think that the Aegean coast was anything other than Turkish in 1444.
Suppressing revolts is done through harsh treatment and raising autonomy.
Let's not be naive here -- the reason it's accepted is to give a freebie and to bypass the 20-dev limit for promoted cultures. That's bad design in my opinion, and the current railroad '+10 base unrest' that disappears after it spawns a worthless 10K rebel stack on Yerevan's mountain fort is just handholding. If they want to promote Armenian, they should need to integrate their vassals.
The OP just mentioned about such a mechanic: the Armenian part in QQ has less than 20 development. So if QQ doesn't start with Armenian accepted, the AI will have a hard time try to accept it.
Was surprised by this, but it appears to be correct - they have 17 dev.
I imagine the point is QQ stability, then, since any player could easily get 3 dev more to take the decision.
However, given how early in the EU period the QQ were smoked, not certain why QQ is given any freebies. Possibly they were looking at the wikipedia page, which implies that the Armenians were treated well and integrated up until Qara Iskander. Or maybe it was an early design to allow people to flip to becoming Armenia without using a tiny country. But yeah, it seems a little excessive.
Wouldn't QQ collapsing more often than not in AI hands actually be desirable, considering how quickly after game start they fell apart historically?
Not a history expert, but according to Wikipedia, Armenian coexistence in QQ lands was peaceful until 1420; after that, their lands were subject to pillaging and forced migration.
In game terms, armenian provinces could have had higher development in 1420, when QQ would add them as an accepted culture. Afterwards (during the reign of Qara Iskander), QQ would have used the exploit development mechanic to lower the development of armenian provinces for short-term benefits in their war with the Timurids. Which resulted in an accepted culture with under-20 development, and local unrest as a byproduct of using exploit development on armenian provinces only.
Speaking in general, are there other countries which don't start with at least 1 accepted wrong-group culture in 1444? Is QQ really a "freebie", or just subject to a general rule of thumb? My current campaign is Athens, which starts as an italian OPM with Greek as auto-accepted culture (under 20 development), but its one province is greek, not italian, so perhaps it's an outlier.
In game terms, armenian provinces could have had higher development in 1420, when QQ would add them as an accepted culture. Afterwards (during the reign of Qara Iskander), QQ would have used the exploit development mechanic to lower the development of armenian provinces for short-term benefits in their war with the Timurids. Which resulted in an accepted culture with under-20 development, and local unrest as a byproduct of using exploit development on armenian provinces only.
Speaking in general, are there other countries which don't start with at least 1 accepted wrong-group culture in 1444? Is QQ really a "freebie", or just subject to a general rule of thumb? My current campaign is Athens, which starts as an italian OPM with Greek as auto-accepted culture (under 20 development), but its one province is greek, not italian, so perhaps it's an outlier.
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OK, I did a cursory (by no means exhaustive) check around the map.
Genoa begins having accepted Pontic (15 dev) and Greek (5 dev) . It has not accepted Crimean (9 dev).
Athens begins having accepted Greek (11 dev).
Naxos begins having accepted Greek (6 dev).
Mazovia has not accepted Ruthenian (9 dev), and no accepted cultures in general.
The Knights has not accepted Greek (11 dev), and no accepted cultures in general.
Shirvan has not accepted Dagestani (9 dev), and no accepted cultures in general.
Delhi has accepted same-group Panjabi, but not Rajput (10 dev).
Nogai has not accepted Kazakh (6 dev), and no accepted cultures in general.
Oirat has not accepted Buryat (6 dev), and no accepted cultures in general.
Jaunpur has not accepted Bihari (46 dev!), and no accepted cultures in general.
Orissa has not accepted Telugu (8 dev), and no accepted cultures in general.
I can't find the pattern, if there is one...
Genoa begins having accepted Pontic (15 dev) and Greek (5 dev) . It has not accepted Crimean (9 dev).
Athens begins having accepted Greek (11 dev).
Naxos begins having accepted Greek (6 dev).
Mazovia has not accepted Ruthenian (9 dev), and no accepted cultures in general.
The Knights has not accepted Greek (11 dev), and no accepted cultures in general.
Shirvan has not accepted Dagestani (9 dev), and no accepted cultures in general.
Delhi has accepted same-group Panjabi, but not Rajput (10 dev).
Nogai has not accepted Kazakh (6 dev), and no accepted cultures in general.
Oirat has not accepted Buryat (6 dev), and no accepted cultures in general.
Jaunpur has not accepted Bihari (46 dev!), and no accepted cultures in general.
Orissa has not accepted Telugu (8 dev), and no accepted cultures in general.
I can't find the pattern, if there is one...
There is no mechanical pattern to it, some countries are designated as having a culture accepted at game start (you can find this in Europa Universalis IV -> History -> Countries folder).