Why is AI still doing this after so many patches?

[KubiG37]

*A rant thread with a suggestion contained in the last sentence*
I just got another game basically ruined/spoiled by completely ridiculous AI strategic behavior.

Plan:
I played USSR, started a non-historical game and setup England to go Monarchist (to join fascist Germany). I wanted to just leave the AIs
to do whatever they want without much interference, expecting Germany (which I buffed heavily) to win, and then have an interesting fight with them both.

Result:
Civil war in Japan broke out, and Manchukuo broke free. What an opportunity! For 25 PP I can get a wargoal and make a small puppet in Asia, while China is busy fighting the warlords and Japan fighting itself.
So I declared the war. And Manchukuo immediately joined Axis and called in Germany.

!! In Mid 1937, WHY????? What ridiculous purpose could it have served Germany??? Germany wasn't at war, and they had no industry or army yet. The only reason I couldn't stomp them straight away was nation of Poland standing in the way.

But the AI stupidity did not stop there, Austria became ballsy knowing Germany is at war and refused the Anschluss, so Hitler got mad and attacked them. And Austria auto-joined my faction! Sure, don't bother asking... Oh, also Hungary was guaranteeing them, so they came to their help and joined my faction too (they asked at least!).
Then the German AI genius demanded Sudetenland,and got turned down again, but never minding, declared war on Czechoslovakia anyway, which auto-joined me again, also doing this so early called in France and Romania thanks to their guarantee! (Good now I at least have land access)

Then Italy joined the Axis for no reason... and declared war on Greece and Yugoslavia immediately, because apparently the Axis warmongering was going all too well. (in the process they forgot to place any troops on the French border and lost half of northern Italy in a month)

To cut it short, the war became a short WW1 simulator where we veeeery slowly pushed through all the annoying mountain provinces and then ripped them both apart in just a few months.
1938 Game over basically. Wasted time.

All this, because of that stupid Manchukuo joining a random faction.

All that needs to be done is apply some Negative modifier for joining faction whose leader is on the other side of the planet, without any way for land access.
This would both fix this ridiculous example, and similar issues when minor nations that get attacked in Europe randomly
join chinese mutual-assistance block or Japanese Prosperity sphere, instead of a friendly faction that is right next to them.

 

[Lider_Picaro]

Agreed. Another example is what happens when I play Carlist Spain and Portugal goes monarchist. Portugal will eventually join a brazilian civil war supporting neutrals against fascists. Up to this point everything is normal, but when Portugal completes the focus to create a faction with me (Spain) and I join, suddenly fascist Brazil joins the Axis. The same Axis which by then is always already at war with both the Allies and the Comintern.

Basically Germany is at war with the whole world and decides to get involved in a south american civil war against two right-winged monarchist regimes that could eventually attack the the Allies and open a front in southern France.

To add insult to injury after capitulating fascist Brazil all by ourselves (Iberian bros) and being forced to assist in the swarm of Germany and Italy everything comes together in the peace conference mess:

TURN 1. GLORIOUS RED ARMY GETS TO MAKE IT'S DEMANDS FIRST:

ussr puppets brazil





ragequit

 

[klinkvon13]

After a few Kaiserreich playthrough, I played a few vanilla game, to get the feel of the unrestricted alliance setup.
Soon enough I ended in up in similar senseless messes, making me thinking that Kaiserreich restricted alliance setup is not really a problem, on the contrary.
These days with Paradox game, the more DLC you get, and the more random is the game. I cannot even touch EU4 any more - while I played EU3 up to the last patch.

I am waiting for CK3 eagerly. Not because I think it'll fix CK2 shortcoming (the stupid vassal link system for one) but because at least it'll have the no-DLC-yet consistency.

 

[Neal Mac]

Non historical things happen when non historical mode is chosen. News at 11!

 

[klinkvon13]

Non historical things happen when non historical mode is chosen. News at 11!

Did you read the original post?

No one care whether non historical things happened. People care people nonsensical things happened.

 

[Neal Mac]

Did you read the original post?

No one care whether non historical things happened. People care people nonsensical things happened.

Nonsensical?!?!?!?!?
THey should have just let Russia curb stomp them and puppet them because that is what the human player wanted to do, instead of making a powerful alliance to save themselves? How dare the AI look after Manchukuo's interests instead of the human Russia's interests , I am rage quitting!!!

ETA It serves Germany because they don't want Russia expanding for the EXACT reasons he wanted to do it tactically.

 

[qer]

Non historical has always been a mess. Which is funny, since historical also can get super wornky with the way factions work, in the sense that they don't. the other problem is the focus trees. They work great in railroad situations, but the moments things start to change they are a huge mess. Focuses that deal with the external situation doesn't take into account the possible variables, and thus can lead to the silly Ai wanting that sudeteland.

 

[Neal Mac]

It would be nice if you are going to "disagree" you at least defend your position and tell me why it wouldn't be in Germany's interest to want to stop Russia from invading Manchukuo and gaining a foothold into Asia with certain intentions of expanding further? How that would be so "nonsensical" for Germany?
Anyone who ever even thought of playing as Germany know that Russia is a natural enemy, and will have to be dealt with.

 

[klinkvon13]

Once again, the answer you ask for is in the original post:
- Germany attacking USSR while not ready at all
- Germany multiplying war enemies adding them to USSR, actually making the USSR stronger at every corner
- Italy joining to add even more enemies
And Germany was dead by 1938.

Real Germany knew that it was smart to actually sign a non aggression treaty with USSR until they would think themselves ready.

 

[Neal Mac]

Once again, the answer you ask for is in the original post:
- Germany attacking USSR while not ready at all
- Germany multiplying war enemies adding them to USSR, actually making the USSR stronger at every corner
- Italy joining to add even more enemies
And Germany was dead by 1938.

Real Germany knew that it was smart to actually sign a non aggression treaty with USSR until they would think themselves ready.

Ok good point. So why didn't the stupid AI do it historically like you cite?
And my answer was in my first post - then choose historical if that is what you want. LOL.
OMG non historical thing happened when I chose non historical!

We are just going to go in circles with you citing actual history, and me saying if that is what OP wanted - choose historical.

 

[klinkvon13]

Ok, I think Neal Mac point of view is quite clear now, everything is perfect: he brillantly demonstrated how sensible it is for Germany to start an all-out-war in 1937 leading to total collapse by 1939, with the key argument being Germany should be wary of USSR to the point it should do everything possible to actually make USSR a stronger faction at every step.

Can we get back to the original topic (improving AI)?

 

[Neal Mac]

Ok, I think Neal Mac point of view is quite clear now, everything is perfect: he brillantly demonstrated how sensible it is for Germany to start an all-out-war in 1937 leading to total collapse by 1939, with the key argument being Germany should be wary of USSR to the point it should do everything possible to actually make USSR a stronger faction at every step.

Can we get back to the original topic (improving AI)?

LOL! Yes, I was saying AI is perfect by pointing that AI Germany not doing what they historically did (as you cite) isn't nonsensical when it comes to curbing Russian aggression and expansion into Asia, and shouldn't be rage inducing or surprising when you choose "non historical". Sheesh.
What an intellectual coward to create a strawman like that. Plus playing to the crowd is really pathetic and egotistical.
We have nothing further to say to each other if this is how you handle disagreements and I will ignore your posts and you can do the same.

 

[balmung60]

Automatic faction joining and its consequences have been a disaster for Hearts of Iron 4

 

[Baron Jukaga]

Another reason I only play KR or mods with a restricted alliance system. The vanilla AI can't be trusted to play a reasonable game.

 

[Emren]

Well, non-historical and all...

The game isn’t programmed to deal with the multitude of non-historical scenarios/permutations. Your expectations are far too high.

 

[Bki]

Well, non-historical and all...

The game isn’t programmed to deal with the multitude of non-historical scenarios/permutations. Your expectations are far too high.

Given how much time has been spent on implementing those alt-historical scenarios, I think assuming that they work correctly in conjonction with the basic game mechanisms is the bare minimum.

 

[Emren]

Given how much time has been spent on implementing those alt-historical scenarios, I think assuming that they work correctly in conjonction with the basic game mechanisms is the bare minimum.

I am not sure there are any bugs as such in the OP, so I don’t your assumption is false. However, what makes sense in alt-history is of course highly subjective. The time spent developing alt paths shouldn’t lead you to believe that the AI will understand what to do and not to do for any given situation.

 

[KubiG37]

Nonsensical?!?!?!?!?
THey should have just let Russia curb stomp them and puppet them because that is what the human player wanted to do, instead of making a powerful alliance to save themselves? How dare the AI look after Manchukuo's interests instead of the human Russia's interests , I am rage quitting!!!

ETA It serves Germany because they don't want Russia expanding for the EXACT reasons he wanted to do it tactically.

You're technically right, but it does not apply to this situation. They don't have any means to stop me as Russia, nor do they have any relation at all with a Manchukuo that was a Japanese puppet that just broke free (and isn't probably even recognized by world powers). Also Germany, supposed to be still rebuilding after WW1, and obliged to not have large standing army by the Versailles treaty, should not threaten anyone anywhere. In case you disagree, I want France and Britain immediately join the war against Germany for 'breaking the treaty'.

If you want to dispute someone's claim/goals/agendas, you must first have means to do so.

While protecting a bullied kid might be brave and chivalrous, if you then both get thrashed anyway, it doesn't exactly help anyone.
OR:
Imagine today's USA attacking some country (say Iran), and upon attacking, Venezuela declares war on USA, because they don't like it. (let's ignore how that would go IRL)