Why I still think EU is the worst one of PI's 4 major series

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Huanglukuzhu

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I like to play grand strategy games before, and I love EU, since I have tried VIC2 through my friend's computer and played CK2 in a peaceful night. I find EU somewhat boring then. When EU4 is there I bought it and played for days. I dropped it finally. It is a better version of EU3 and much more balanced than games like VIC2 or CK2, with fewer bugs and more detailed mechanics, I admit, but still lack something so called SOUL.

Yes.

EU4 focus on a period when the world change rapidly, from medieval to renaissance then to enlightment then to early revolution era. That's good, however, bad. Comparing with other games, it has a too long time and too few feeling of the time it represented, which I mean, form CK2, I could say "this is medieval" and the same as VIC2 with the word "revolution", due to their "liege and vassal system" or "reform and revolution" system. While in EU4, I only manage my state's diplomacy and warfare. I expand, I develop, I make alliance, and I conquer. It's not bad, but now there are already so many games runs like that, no matter what background they are of. From Nobunaga's ambition to Galatic war, from ancient China 3 kingdoms games to Napolenic Era games, the same story have taken place every now and then, with different appearances but same core. There is no feeling about renaissance, enlightment or revolution. Just click button and achive the event and see a dialoge window. Some huge changes of the world then finished. It's so joking. The newly released CM expansion have introduced tribal system and viceroalty system, letting the world become live. We see tribals gradully changed to kingdoms or republics and feudal empires gradully changed to centrelized monachy, and what's more, with new play style appeared. In EU4, these also can be seen during gameplay, but the only thing changed is name and some statics.

It;s dissapointing.

I know I won't be agreed by many people here. I really drop the game, but sincerly hoping that one day I could get a real EU, which could finely represent the great time of changing.
 
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Enewald

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I know that feel bro.
Vanilla is boring, try some of the better mods like MEIOU. The main problem of Eu4 is too much focus on expansion, warfare and abusing the trade mechanics to make sure you are unbeatable by the end of the first century of the gameplay. Then keep steamrolling and roflstomping until you get bored. And with the current mechanics it still is EUROPA Universalis, making sure that playing anything outside Europe just feel retarded, because WHATEVER you do over 400 years, you still remain an inferior civilization compared to their predestined übermensch genes. Has anyone ever been as a far as to like think that something might be wrong with the current trade mechanic also? :p
In Eu3 at least non-Europeans could get filthy rich by solely focusing on trade, alas now there seems some sort of mysterious magical force that keeps moving stuff always in one direction towards a few predestined Europeans nodes... also known as magic.

Victoria best game ever btw.
 

LanceTheLamb

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I know that feel bro.
Vanilla is boring, try some of the better mods like MEIOU. The main problem of Eu4 is too much focus on expansion, warfare and abusing the trade mechanics to make sure you are unbeatable by the end of the first century of the gameplay. Then keep steamrolling and roflstomping until you get bored. And with the current mechanics it still is EUROPA Universalis, making sure that playing anything outside Europe just feel retarded, because WHATEVER you do over 400 years, you still remain an inferior civilization compared to their predestined übermensch genes. Has anyone ever been as a far as to like think that something might be wrong with the current trade mechanic also? :p
In Eu3 at least non-Europeans could get filthy rich by solely focusing on trade, alas now there seems some sort of mysterious magical force that keeps moving stuff always in one direction towards a few predestined Europeans nodes... also known as magic.

Victoria best game ever btw.

Couldn't agree more! Especially the fact that Asian countries develop tech the same rate as sub-Saharan, and starts with less tech than nomads. Good for game balance, but an insult to all the Asian fans.
 

Davetheterror

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Couldn't agree more! Especially the fact that Asian countries develop tech the same rate as sub-Saharan, and starts with less tech than nomads. Good for game balance, but an insult to all the Asian fans.

Obviously asian should get a major buff so they can really dominate every other nations including the european nations....:blink::rolleyes:

this game is called europa universalis , EUROPA! you wanna know why? because it was during this time that european invaded and spread their culture around the entire globe, including asia, and while the asian were a lot more numerous then the europeans, than how did the europeans achieve it? with superior techonology and warfare knowledge....

when I see people advocating for a buff to non-european nations , that just make me facepalm myself...


`now there seems some sort of mysterious magical force that keeps moving stuff always in one direction towards a few predestined Europeans nodes... also known as magic.`:rolleyes:

those are called trades, you know you take boats and ships stuff oversea into the mainland nation in europe, well thats what the european did with the entire world, they took the ressources and richest and sent them back to their nation, they erased entire nations and even cultures from the face of the earth by doing so.... I dont see why it should go the other way, towards india and asia, thats wouldnt really make sense in a historical way wouldnt it?

what is needed though is a nerf to trade income, cause its seriously ridiculous, when you can have 500 ducats coming from trade by the 1730`s, there something wrong with trade
 

Tufto

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It is definitely not the worst. Not being as complex as Victoria does not by any means make it the worst. Victoria 2 is, 90% of the time, incredibly tedious. You also seem to forget the abysmal HoI series (though I have high hopes for the new installment).

EU4 is more abstract, and not as complex, but since when is that a bad thing? It's still much better than sitting and watching a static map for hours on end.

Also, as various posters have pointed out, Sub-Saharan Africa was not as bad tech-wise as the traditional European narrative would have you believe.
 

hajutze

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this game is called europa universalis , EUROPA! you wanna know why? because it was during this time that european invaded and spread their culture around the entire globe, including asia, and while the asian were a lot more numerous then the europeans, than how did the europeans achieve it? with superior techonology and warfare knowledge....

WRONG!

It's called that because the board game is named like that and they decided to go with it for parts 2 3 and 4 instead of world universalis 1 I guess.
 

DrLulz

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If its the worst, its only because the other games are so damn good (thinking especially of Vicky here).

But imho EUIV is not the worst. CKII is (again, not because it is bad, but because the other games are even better), because its simply too easy, of course you could roleplay and houserule limitations, but at the end of the day, you shouldn't have to, the game should provide the challenge. In this aspect EUIV and (especially) Vicky II fares much better. To the best of my knowledge WC is litterally impossible in Vicky II, and its pretty damn hard in EUIV (at least for me), in CKII I conquered the world with Sri Lanka without breaking a sweat (or cheating), and its not because I am an especially good player. EDIT: This was pre-CM, I have no idea if CKII has been made harder in the recent expansion.
 
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Obviously asian should get a major buff so they can really dominate every other nations including the european nations....:blink::rolleyes:

this game is called europa universalis , EUROPA! you wanna know why? because it was during this time that european invaded and spread their culture around the entire globe, including asia, and while the asian were a lot more numerous then the europeans, than how did the europeans achieve it? with superior techonology and warfare knowledge....

when I see people advocating for a buff to non-european nations , that just make me facepalm myself...

And right now, asian countries like Ming runs around with 40k army, while in real life they had millions of troops.. At least make them worse in tech but have huge armies, now they are worse in tech, worse in size, worse in anything..

Qing in real life was only crushed by europeans in early 18 century.. Thats when they were so advanced that they could defeat Qing.. In this game, Portugal could come in around 1600's, kill whole Ming army, absolutely defeat anything there, and lose nothing..
 

ahyangyi

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Qing in real life was only crushed by europeans in early 18 century.. Thats when they were so advanced that they could defeat Qing.. In this game, Portugal could come in around 1600's, kill whole Ming army, absolutely defeat anything there, and lose nothing..

You meant 19th century I think? The only conflict between Qing and an European power ended with minor Qing victory over Russia and Treaty of Nerchinsk.
 

Tufto

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Why not just have most tech groups (Native American aside) stay at the same rate as Westerners until 1600? It could be balanced by not allowing Exploration ideas, or overseas colonies, or something.
 

ahyangyi

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Why not just have most tech groups (Native American aside) stay at the same rate as Westerners until 1600?
I'm actually fine for the current tech cost penalty. The east Asia wasn't particularly innovative during EU4 timeline. People are also arguing for Chinese tech starting with level 3 instead of 2, which also looks fine to me. Also, the whole tech cost thing doesn't really belong to this thread, which is about EU4 being bland.

It could be balanced by not allowing Exploration ideas, or overseas colonies, or something.
Well, Ming did have Expansion and a colonize Taiwan mission...
Also, taking options away from players is bad.
 

LanceTheLamb

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Obviously asian should get a major buff so they can really dominate every other nations including the european nations....:blink::rolleyes:

this game is called europa universalis , EUROPA! you wanna know why? because it was during this time that european invaded and spread their culture around the entire globe, including asia, and while the asian were a lot more numerous then the europeans, than how did the europeans achieve it? with superior techonology and warfare knowledge....

when I see people advocating for a buff to non-european nations , that just make me facepalm myself...


`now there seems some sort of mysterious magical force that keeps moving stuff always in one direction towards a few predestined Europeans nodes... also known as magic.`:rolleyes:

those are called trades, you know you take boats and ships stuff oversea into the mainland nation in europe, well thats what the european did with the entire world, they took the ressources and richest and sent them back to their nation, they erased entire nations and even cultures from the face of the earth by doing so.... I dont see why it should go the other way, towards india and asia, thats wouldnt really make sense in a historical way wouldnt it?

what is needed though is a nerf to trade income, cause its seriously ridiculous, when you can have 500 ducats coming from trade by the 1730`s, there something wrong with trade

LOL! If u would read my post, I never said anything about Asians overcoming Europeans. It is a history that must be accepted by Asia, the fact that we stagnated and got steam rolled. What we cannot accept is, that SUB SAHARAN TECH IS THE SAME AS ASIAN TECHGROUP. We would just like Paradox to tweak the game a bit, so that Asian tech can be a bit better than African countries, which I believe is historical, without ruining the game centred in Europe.
 

LinusLinothorax

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Obviously asian should get a major buff so they can really dominate every other nations including the european nations....:blink::rolleyes:

this game is called europa universalis , EUROPA! you wanna know why? because it was during this time that european invaded and spread their culture around the entire globe, including asia, and while the asian were a lot more numerous then the europeans, than how did the europeans achieve it? with superior techonology and warfare knowledge....

when I see people advocating for a buff to non-european nations , that just make me facepalm myself...

I could go into detail now what shithole Europe was in 1444 and should still be for the next 200 years, while Asia was undoubtly the center of the world, but i think i can't change your mind anyway.

To OP: It is well known that EU4 lacks peace-game mechanics and some kind of deepness. Its also way to easy to keep good relations with its neighbours. Send a diplomat, wait and thats it. If the diplomat would cost some money per month it would be a good start.
 
Last edited:

Krajzen

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Obviously asian should get a major buff so they can really dominate every other nations including the european nations....:blink::rolleyes:

this game is called europa universalis , EUROPA! you wanna know why? because it was during this time that european invaded and spread their culture around the entire globe, including asia, and while the asian were a lot more numerous then the europeans, than how did the europeans achieve it? with superior techonology and warfare knowledge....

when I see people advocating for a buff to non-european nations , that just make me facepalm myself...

1) The name Europa Universalis comes from the board game. Not historiosophical discussion in Paradox HQ.

2) When do you launch game named CRUSADER KINGS do you expect to play only as the king of European post - crusade state in Levant in 12 - 13th century? BECAUSE NAME.


Seriously, who the hell cares what is the name of the game? Half of the games on the market have names completely unassociated with their content, or vaguely hinting on it. Total War series not only feature a lot of features other than warfare but they also never touch historical periods where the term 'total war' was actually applied into. Civilization game series have a title based on historiosophical term nobody knows what the hell does it even mean, and Civ desigers never cared about that.

But every time someone tries to make Europa Universalis better, more interesting, more historical, more engaging and ultimately more challenging (there is enormous difference between conquering Africa from AOW and Africa of EU3...) suddenly language purists care more about marketing title than about content of their favourite game.
 
Last edited:

Bagonad

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LOL! If u would read my post, I never said anything about Asians overcoming Europeans. It is a history that must be accepted by Asia, the fact that we stagnated and got steam rolled. What we cannot accept is, that SUB SAHARAN TECH IS THE SAME AS ASIAN TECHGROUP. We would just like Paradox to tweak the game a bit, so that Asian tech can be a bit better than African countries, which I believe is historical, without ruining the game centred in Europe.

I think it comes down to the game's inability to represent the limitations and actualities of reality. It would be more historically plausible to have Ming start with a higher tech than Europe, and in the hands of a player, the institutions that led to technological standstill could be circumvented. The problem is that to reach an even remotely historical outcome, the game has to either simulate the real reason why Asia fell behind (Which is doesn't), or make up some more or less arbitrary barriers that are within the mechanics of the game.

Put in another way, for Paradox to properly represent the technological difference in the world would be impossible with the current mechanics, it's not even a topic we can properly define the conclusion of outside of the game. As it looks right now, I would still find it perfectly reasonable to have Chinese tech group start with 4 in all techs, same for nomad and muslim, and then gradually fall behind Europe after the first half of the game, although it'd be very difficult to stop Asia from swallowing up Europe during this time, as the game can't properly simulate the myriad of reasons why that did not happen historically during this time frame (Although one could argue that the post-roman times, mongol invasions, and maybe even the Ottoman conquests is exactly this happening)

The optimal outcome would of course be a completely revamped system, that could more reliably simulate how technology bloomed or staggered around the world, but as it looks right now, the alternatives are not much better than the current situation.