Why I hate Sword of Islam

[yezhanquan]

Having the DLC or not won't make any diffrence whatsoever.

Well, do the DLCs only allow me to play Muslims/Orthodox, and everything else is included as part of the patches?

 

[DLFebin]

I vote for a "remove invasion CB for Muslims". They have a huge technological advantage at start, Jihads, and the classic "fabricate claim". That's enough for them to rule already. Christians can't claim a whole kingdom in one war except through Crusade, which happens once in a while only.

Christian have their own mechanics. They can inherit some foreign titles through marriages, or get claims on kingdoms, and don't forget about good old insta-OP "invade HRE". And as the time progresses, Christians push back Muslims with their Holy Orders. Tbh, Muslims should be powerful at the start, and lose in the end, as it is in the game. Fatimids are somewhat ahistorical, though.

 

[Macs]

Well, do the DLCs only allow me to play Muslims/Orthodox, and everything else is included as part of the patches?

Some other features are also disabled. A prominent one being retinues only available if you have LoR.

 

[No idea]

I completely agree with the OP. I have to add that the HRE and sometimes France provoke similar problems.

 

[Aquilegia]

I agree

This game now plays as Sengoku if you're starting as an independent mediterranean character. Kill or be killed until you have wiped all muslims. It's perennial war with only some times of peace if you're lucky and I hate it..

No fun playing Sicily anymore : (

 

[unmerged(362834)]

IMO, muslim dynasties would become more instable in CK2, if decadence decreased available levies instead of ost moral...

This way, Fatimids would be less entreprising...

 

[Effixel]

Christian have their own mechanics. They can inherit some foreign titles through marriages, or get claims on kingdoms, and don't forget about good old insta-OP "invade HRE". And as the time progresses, Christians push back Muslims with their Holy Orders. Tbh, Muslims should be powerful at the start, and lose in the end, as it is in the game. Fatimids are somewhat ahistorical, though.

Ok I have to admit, I only know the muslims from the outside, as I've never played with them. I just notice that they tend to crush the ERE pretty quickly with their invasion CB. I started recently a game as doux in the ERE, and the muslims took all Anatolia in one single invasion war, which seems a bit too much imo. I'll carry on and see how it goes.

 

[N Katsyev]

Yeah having played on both sides now I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Muslims as OP. Even in games where I'm not involved it's not unusual for France to end up with a huge Mediterranean Empire spreading out to Egypt. The Ilkhanate almost always steamrolls Persia and if the Fatmids implode spectacularly, that's game for the Muslims. They have far less "strategic depth" than the Catholics and then they're even divided among themselves with each Muslim religion having only one real center of power, Almoravid, Fatmid and Persian. In my current game as the Sultan of Africa only because I'm human was I able to retake Mauretania from the French, it's still largely Catholic and I have a huge English catholic Egypt to my right. (to make matters worse recently the HRE and France combined into a super-blob)

 

[Talq]

Ok I have to admit, I only know the muslims from the outside, as I've never played with them. I just notice that they tend to crush the ERE pretty quickly with their invasion CB. I started recently a game as doux in the ERE, and the muslims took all Anatolia in one single invasion war, which seems a bit too much imo. I'll carry on and see how it goes.

You dodged a bullet. If they hit Greece (& succeed), the Byzantines instantly implode.

 

[SewrRatt]

To people advocating getting rid of the muslim invasion CB: How would you reconcile that with the Seljuk invasion of Armenia that happens right at the start of the game? I highly doubt Paradox is going to make that a one-time thing and then just pretend no other muslim invasions could've possibly happened in the time period of the game. And remember, Catholic invasions are even more OP if you just get yourself a claim or are smaller than the target.

 

[Damorte]

Some people in this thread must have had an immense amount of bad luck, or they just havent played their games very long.
The muslims are only ever strong the very first 100 years, then unless a miracle happens they will start to break apart in independence and decadence wars. After that they get pooped on by pretty much everyone and their mother.

edit: Also if you want weaker muslims, start at a later date, just search through the dates until you find the most ideal starting point for the nation/duchy/county you wish to play.

 

[Amadeu of Savoy]

edit: Also if you want weaker muslims, start at a later date, just search through the dates until you find the most ideal starting point for the nation/duchy/county you wish to play.

That makes a lot of sense.

 

[magritte2]

Some people in this thread must have had an immense amount of bad luck, or they just havent played their games very long.
The muslims are only ever strong the very first 100 years, then unless a miracle happens they will start to break apart in independence and decadence wars. After that they get pooped on by pretty much everyone and their mother.

That's my experience as well. It doesn't always go the Muslims way. In my current game (which is hands-off, so it has nothing to do with my choices), the Seljuk monarch died in battle in the first war with the Byzantines, and immediately got torn up by civil war. The Fatimids were strong early (conquering Sicily and a fair chunk of Anatolia), but decadence made them split in two in the mid-12th century. The Abbadids took control of most of Iberia early on, but Castille and Navarra survived, and then the Danish won a crusade for Andalusia. By the middle of the 14th century, there's virtually nothing left of the great Muslim empires. The Byzantines have conquered Nubia, Abyssinnia, Mesopotamia, most of the Levant, and all the lands around the Black Sea to the shores of the Caspian. Navarra controls a third of Iberia with Denmark still in charge of most of the rest, with the Almoravids clinging to southern Portugal. Navarra and Genoa have also taken chunks of North Africa from the Hammadids and the HRE rules Sicily.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

I think if invasions were limited to neighbors it would solve most of the problems surrounding it. Holy wars could also use a similar nerf, but perhaps as an increase in piety cost rather than a total ban on distant wars.

 

[Patricius]

Moslems are always pushed out of the Iberian Peninsula in all my games. Sword of Islam allows a player to load a Moslem game, and for that alone , it is well worth it.

 

[markmid]

I rarely see the Muslims winning in spain, that is just the unpredictable nature of the game and everyone's experience differs. Perhaps what is needed is a toggle in the options to settle this once and for all. Bonus to the Muslims in spain, Bonus to the Christians, or just vanilla where it can go either way (which is by far my preference.)

However I usually see the HRE and ERE blobbing, that is a given really, but again could just be through the luck of the draw.

 

[KPJ]

Completely disagree! Love Sword of Islam

I love playing Muslims, and I love playing in the Mediterranean. I am not afraid of the Muslim doomstack. I have seen Sicily and Genoa survive on their own into the 1400s (Provence is a duchy, usually part of HRE so why would they survive?).

The Muslim game is less dynastic, for sure. But there are different considerations (decadence, fratricide)

 

[Morwys]

Welcome back, my compatriot. Where have you been in the last 4 months?

Well, thanks, my man. I've been hiding in a cave in Paraná, just recently moved back to civilization .

Keep in mind that since at least 1.07, Jihads can't even be declared until 1185. And I don't think the big muslim states ever really use the invasion CB on Iberia.

Indeed, since the 1.07 there's no Jihads before that year, but that does not mean good times to Italian and Iberian christian nations. I don't get "Jihad for Galicia" anymore, just the plain ol' DoW against Galicia. And yes, the big muslim states ocasionally do the invasion CB on Iberia.

Tbh, Muslims should be powerful at the start, and lose in the end, as it is in the game. Fatimids are somewhat ahistorical, though.

Muslims should not be powerful at the start; they should be powerful all around in the Middle East and weak in Iberia. If a strong dinasty from the ME conquers Mauritania and steamrolls Iberia, that's acceptable; but those pesky, insignificant taifa states should not be strong, ever.

This game now plays as Sengoku if you're starting as an independent mediterranean character. Kill or be killed until you have wiped all muslims. It's perennial war with only some times of peace if you're lucky and I hate it..

True. And Sengoku was awful. Just... awful.

I love playing Muslims, and I love playing in the Mediterranean. I am not afraid of the Muslim doomstack. I have seen Sicily and Genoa survive on their own into the 1400s (Provence is a duchy, usually part of HRE so why would they survive?).

Don't get me wrong: playing muslim states is great. I just wish the AI muslims would be more historically accurate.