Why does the Papacy not become reformed automatically?

[DanteLeo]

I might not know what I'm talking about but as far as I know the counter-reformation began in 1545 with the Council of Trent in Italy, called by Pope Paul III, granted it wasn't that much of a reform as they only put the Inquisition back in business and adjusted the major complaints the Protestants had about the Catholic Church and that did not stop these new branches of Christianity. Game wise I see why they are different religions, even if I would prefer it to be more like the reformed paganism in CK2, what I don't get is why doesn't the Papacy gets immediately reformed (or ever in any of the bookmarks, as far as I remember) since they were the ones that began it on the first place?

 

[durbal]

wut.

 

[puddingkip]

Reformed in the game is supposed to roughly represent Calvinists, and definitely not anything the Pope would support.
I think you are thinking of the counter-reformation

 

[Kagemin]

Reformed in EU4 is Calvinism/Zwingli-ism, not the Catholic church after it reformed against the Protestants (Lutherans).

 

[DanteLeo]

Ooohhh that's right, the protestant movement in Switzerland was called Swiss Reformation; in the back of mind it was called Swiss Protestantism for whatever reason. Now other questions arises to me, why the distinction between Calvinism and Lutheranism&Anglicanism? And was there a Counter-Reform event, I don't remember and really haven't played Eu4 in like a year and a half?

 

[Parapluman]

Reformed in this context is just another word to say Calvinist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformed

Ooohhh that's right, the protestant movement in Switzerland was called Swiss Reformation; in the back of mind it was called Swiss Protestantism for whatever reason. Now other questions arises to me, why the distinction between Calvinism and Lutheranism&Anglicanism? And was there a Counter-Reform event, I don't remember and really haven't played Eu4 in like a year and a half?

There is a decision catholic nations can take at some point after the reformation. Called embrace the counter-reformation. It basically gives you more missionary's at the cost of more expensive tech.
https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/List_of_decision_lists#Religious_Conversion

 

[Sfan]

Counter Reformation is a modifier catholic nations can take after the Reformation. Extra tech cost in exchange for an extra missionary.

 

[Yuiiut]

Reformed in the game is supposed to roughly represent Calvinists, and definitely not anything the Pope would support.
I think you are thinking of the counter-reformation

To expand slightly, IIRC the devs named it 'Reformed' to make it 'more generic', and more applicable to a world where for whatever reason Calvin might have not arisen or become prominent, making the term 'Calvinist' inaccurate. As others have said, embracing the counter-reformation is a decision Catholics can take, unlocked by event after the Reformation. The decision slightly increases tech cost, but gives you more missionaries and missionary strength

 

[Nyrael]

Ooohhh that's right, the protestant movement in Switzerland was called Swiss Reformation; in the back of mind it was called Swiss Protestantism for whatever reason. Now other questions arises to me, why the distinction between Calvinism and Lutheranism&Anglicanism?

Because Protestants were not one big happy family that always got along. Lutheranism generally represents Protestants that are "lightly reformed", whereas Calvinism represents Protestants that are "strongly reformed".

 

[netherlink]

Forgive any bias, because I'm Catholic, but yes, predestination is as stupidly horrifying as it sounds.

Well, tell that a good ol' Norse pagan like me

 

[uberjedi]

Forgive any bias, because I'm Catholic, but yes, predestination is as stupidly horrifying as it sounds.

Or one could simply just choose to grow up and not believe in faery tales at all, regardless if they come from bronze age middle eastern cultures like christianity, the old pagan north europe or from anywhere else.

(no hard feelings intended)

 

[Nyrael]

All in all OP, seeing as you are interested in learning more about all this, I'd suggest checking the History Subforum. It might be a good place to make these questions, and any other questions of historical nature.

Or one could simply just choose to grow up and not believe in faery tales at all, regardless if they come from bronze age middle eastern cultures like christianity, the old pagan north europe or from anywhere else.

(no hard feelings intended)

Nope, no hard feelings. Just insults based on, ironically, one's own beliefs on the matter.
Really now, you people are fascinating.

 

[ChloePech]

Ooohhh that's right, the protestant movement in Switzerland was called Swiss Reformation; in the back of mind it was called Swiss Protestantism for whatever reason. Now other questions arises to me, why the distinction between Calvinism and Lutheranism&Anglicanism? And was there a Counter-Reform event, I don't remember and really haven't played Eu4 in like a year and a half?

Lutherans primary difference from everything (pretty much) is that they believe faith in god alone can lead to salvation and a direct interpretation of the scripture- they dont need a church, nor do they need to preform good deeds in life to go to heaven so long as their belief is genuine. Calvinists, in contrast, believe that noone can be saved from hell and that only the predestined go to heaven- regardless of their actions on earth, and even the most outwardly faithful and good people are fundamentally depraved and sinful. Anglicans believe in a much more structured church- with the king/queen as the head, it essentially walks the line between reformed, protestant and catholic- it can best be understood as "not what those are".

 

[ecrurudesby]

To expand slightly, IIRC the devs named it 'Reformed' to make it 'more generic', and more applicable to a world where for whatever reason Calvin might have not arisen or become prominent, making the term 'Calvinist' inaccurate.

Huh I never knew that. It is ironic that what Reformed represents was named after a Frenchman, and yet in EU4 the Reformation routinely passes the French by without so much as a murmur. Why the devs have not addressed the severe lack of French religious strife I don't know, but it really irritates me, as do the wider Reformation mechanics.

 

[Yuiiut]

Huh I never knew that. It is ironic that what Reformed represents was named after a Frenchman, and yet in EU4 the Reformation routinely passes the French by without so much as a murmur. Why the devs have not addressed the severe lack of French religious strife I don't know, but it really irritates me, as do the wider Reformation mechanics.

They do theoratically have their own disaster (https://eu4.paradoxwikis.com/French_Wars_of_Religion), but it barely ever fires. What would you do to represent it though? Here's a event, if gives you a stab hit and now everyone's a heretic cos screw you for playing France? The root issue, IMO, is the inability to represent religious minorities/oppression terribly well in EU-the same reason the Lollards are represented in England with a 'here's a doomstack, go kill it' mechanic. Short of making immensely complicated, bloated modifiers everywhere (hello, MEIOU and Taxes), you've either got to punish certain countries for choices they may not even have made in the game's timeline cos history, or accept that some issues have to be simplified to make a playable game.

 

[frolix42]

It seems like this thread was created by an honest error in translation. Maybe the OP could ask for it to be closed.

 

[Nyrael]

It seems like this thread was created by an honest error in translation. Maybe the OP could ask for it to be closed.

After the OP got his answer, he went to inquire more about it all. So I'm not getting an impression that he minds.
Also, treads here are closed when people break the rules with their behavior, or they necro an ancient tread. Neither is the case here, so why close it?

 

[MiniaAr]

About the counter-reformation decision,

I think this should be one of the age objective during the Age of Reformation, alongside converting to either Protestantism or Reformed.

Something like this (changes in green):

Objective Description
Join a Side! Embrace Protestantism or Reformed as your state religion or Take the Embrace the Counter-Reformation decision.


What do you think?

 

[netherlink]

About the counter-reformation decision,

I think this should be one of the age objective during the Age of Reformation, alongside converting to either Protestantism or Reformed.

Something like this (changes in green):

Objective Description
Join a Side! Embrace Protestantism or Reformed as your state religion or Take the Embrace the Counter-Reformation decision.


What do you think?

I reaaaally like that idea. As long as they turn Counter-Reformation into somehting useful, though ^^

 

[Nyrael]

About the counter-reformation decision,

I think this should be one of the age objective during the Age of Reformation, alongside converting to either Protestantism or Reformed.

Something like this (changes in green):

Objective Description
Join a Side! Embrace Protestantism or Reformed as your state religion or Take the Embrace the Counter-Reformation decision.


What do you think?

I agree, but like I said this before the update was even released, this Objective itself is horrendous: it's just one click. It really should be a reward that you have to earn, like the Objectives are.