Why does the AI make ridiculous alliances in the beginning of games, that the player would have no chance whatsoever at getting it?

[JohnTG1]

I always notice in the beginning of my games, OPM nations around me always make ridiculous alliances that would be impossible for the player to get in the first few years. For example playing Brandenburg I had both Stettin and Wolgast allying Lithuania in december 1444, even though they obviously shouldn't be able to due to not enough opinion or military power. While me, I couldn't even ally Poland for the first couple of years after some opinion improving.
Now I've tried Milan, and Savoy immediately gets an alliance with Austria while I had a -40 acceptance . Just how does the AI make these alliances? Are they actually geared to send and accept alliance invites that would just screw up the player? Mainly when almost all nations around me were allied to Poland or another strong nation in my lubeck game (after I stopped being an OPM)

 

[Namepending4]

It's interesting that as Milan you couldn't ally Austria. Back when I was testing some starting stuff I used to ally Austria the most consistently so that I could stay in the HRE, while everyone else left. I've your playing on anything but normal you have some amount of opinion modifier that the AI wouldn't have.

Otherwise from my understanding some of the less consistent Byzantium strats had you ally Hungry or Poland for the first war against the Ottomans. And they're pretty small and the wrong religion. But it is kind of weird when the ottomans ally like a Sunni opm.

I don't know if it's out there but I would love to see how the AI picks allies. Like what are the parameters it takes into consideration, I feel like that would be really interesting.

 

[Vetgirig]

With the estate you can get +25 modifier (with same religion) and with threatened and having the same rivals you can get a long way to get alliances. With Austria rivaling Burgundy (or France) and Savoy threatened by Burgundy (or France) I see no reason why not they quickly can get an alliance if they also send an insult to Burgundy( or France) .

Austria is a bad ally since you can't drag them into offensive wars inside the HRE.

 

[hermithill]

AI Stettin: why do you ally only Lithuania when the player can ally both Poland AND Lithuania?

And the player can get Brandeburg and Austria too, because, why not...

Oh, and AI Savoy, why do you allied only Austria when you can also ally France:

So why do players keep claiming that the AI can do things that they can't? (Except if everything has changed between 1.32 and 1.33 - I still play 1.32).


Note that in the Savoy game I did nothing except pressing 2 alliance buttons, one the 11th, one the 12th. In the Stetting game, I did a few things.

 

[hermithill]

Used the estate privilege that gives +25 relation with catholics
Recruited to force limit (the free compagny)

(Allied Austria)
RMed Poland
Scornfully insulted Hungary (or another rival of Poland)
Increased relation with Poland, and in March I was able to ally them.

I don't know whether it is repeatable or not, but it doesn't take too long. I wasn't able to recruit a diplo rep advisor, otherwise it could have been even faster.

 

[Nostalgium]

The most frequent way small countries ally big ones is by being Threatened by the bigger country's rivals. This gives a rather substantial boost to alliance acceptance reasons, and works for the player too, though they may have to set the opinion manually.

 

[hermithill]

Yes, I did that with Stettin (Denmark) (no need with Savoy, and I wasn't able to do it with Brandenburg, neighbours are too small).

 

[bokorthedust]

Pro tip if you want to ally someone major at the start: try RM-ing them first, they usually accept it outright, or with the opinion privilege, or worst case scenario with insulting one of their rivals first. All of these are doable before you unpause, so you can dodge the 'X has too many diplomatic relations' malus later on.

 

[ArtFart]

I have seen this a few times in my games that have really screwed me over. Small OPM's manageing to ally France or Austria coincidently tieing with my mission tree objectives...

Although I actually like it, it creates a challenge you have to then overcome, do you brute force it and punch way above your weight or do you diplomatically make it so those major's break their allaince or bait the AI into making another alliance and attacking them etc. It's not a bad thing really.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It has been shown empirically that AI rivalry/ally behavior is different for player vs AI nations at start. I don't think the examples shown here are particularly ridiculous, though.

 

[JohnTG1]

AI Stettin: why do you ally only Lithuania when the player can ally both Poland AND Lithuania?


View attachment 871881


And the player can get Brandeburg and Austria too, because, why not...

View attachment 871882


Oh, and AI Savoy, why do you allied only Austria when you can also ally France:

View attachment 871878


So why do players keep claiming that the AI can do things that they can't? (Except if everything has changed between 1.32 and 1.33 - I still play 1.32).


Note that in the Savoy game I did nothing except pressing 2 alliance buttons, one the 11th, one the 12th. In the Stetting game, I did a few things.

Why Stettin specifically can ally Lithuania in the first month yet me, Brandenburg, has to improve relations to only ally them in 1446? And as Milan it took me a couple of years before I could make France and Austria friendly so I could ally to them. Stop dismissing anything someone says about the AI as bullshit.
I literally couldn't ally Poland for a couple of months in my Brandenburg game until they became friendly, I assume because I made the prussians my rival

 

[Nostalgium]

Why Stettin specifically can ally Lithuania in the first month yet me, Brandenburg, has to improve relations to only ally them in 1446?

My guess, without seeing more info, is that Lithuania is rivaling Denmark, and Stettin is feeling threatened by Denmark.

 

[JohnTG1]

My guess, without seeing more info, is that Lithuania is rivaling Denmark, and Stettin is feeling threatened by Denmark.

It could be but in my Wolgast game I couldn't ally either Poland or Lithuania even though I had the threatened by teutonic order modifier

 

[hermithill]

But as a Stettin player, you can ally Poland the first month, and I was able to ally Poland + Lithuania January 19. So what does this have to do with the fact that the nation is played by AI?
Also, I tried another Brandenburg game: alliance with Poland December 12 and they even aren't friendly.
So yes, things don't always go well, that's true, but that doesn't mean that the player is at a disadvantage.

Edit: spelling

 

[hermithill]

My guess, without seeing more info, is that Lithuania is rivaling Denmark, and Stettin is feeling threatened by Denmark.

Or the TO (as in my Stettin try).

 

[hermithill]

It could be but in my Wolgast game I couldn't ally either Poland or Lithuania even though I had the threatened by teutonic order modifier

Do you use the Religious Diplomats privilege day 1? It gives a huge relation boost. As Wolgast, after that I can RM Poland and then ally them after a month (just because you have to wait 1 month before sending another diplomat), without doing anything else (recruit to force limit, insult rival, declare myself threatened and so on).

 

[The Macedonian]

You might want to check the diplo feedback map for each -- the yellow and red marked provinces. These are not always the same at the start of the game, as I believe certain randomized ruler traits can impact what goals each nation sets.