Why does Sweden have cores on Scania and Jämtland?

[jordarkelf]

The largest? That's a dubious claim, and the goalposts move considerably depending on what period of history we are discussing.


In Europe it is.. Find a other landmass at the same size in Europe which haven't been returned after it were conquered by one nation from another..

Only a swede would call it dubious claim for a non aparent reason.

You really want to get into this?

Scania = 10,939 km² according to Wiki. Let's see:

Northern Ireland/Ulster? Wiki says 13,843 km2. Never reunified with Ireland 'til today.

Elsass-Lothringen? 8,280 km² + 23,547 km2, let's say 30000 km2. Never returned to Germany (HRE) after France conquered it... last lost in 1945.

Artois/South Flanders? 4000 km² + ~5000km², let's say 9000km² Never finally returned to Flanders/the Low countries after France conquered it...

Anatolian parts of Greece (as successor state to Byzantium)? Even if limited just to areas which were Greek up to the genocides of the Young Turks, this is a HUGE area.


But if your point was, Skåne is the only area which was actually sold by its former owner at one point, then I concede.

 

[Shadiiw]

Sweden had cedded back Scania in 1679. if it weren't for the fact that swedens ally France were the peace negotiator.. so of cause the peace agrement fell out in swedens favour.

And if the Dutch hadent come to the aid of Denmark when Charles X was sieging
Copenhagen in 1658, Denmark may have been destroyed.

 

[b9AcE]

The cores represent which nations consider a region to be a part of their nation.
Not what other nations think in the matter or if the claim is reasonable.
Clear enough?

 

[unmerged(56576)]

Those Skane debates are repetitive and boring.

 

[Lasse Mann]

but in game term, it is still unrealistic that sweden has a core on two provinces they had only owned for 28 years in grand total, when there otherwise in the game only is a core after 50 years..

 

[King Nothing]

The cores represent which nations consider a region to be a part of their nation.
Not what other nations think in the matter or if the claim is reasonable.
Clear enough?

Well... The core is somewhat both.. Since you get no BB from taking them and the revolt risk is at zero it's really everyone that thinks it's a reasonable claim.

It would have been better to divide the core part in two or three different things.

 

[King Nothing]

but in game term, it is still unrealistic that sweden has a core on two provinces they had only owned for 28 years in grand total, when there otherwise in the game only is a core after 50 years..

That was a long time ago so of course In Nomine hadn't come out yet so they went with the original rules and that was 25 years.

 

[Sirce]

Think of it this way, the cores are a result of an event due to Danish bankruptcy. They receive a territory with core in exchange of ducats. Thus a core on the said provinces.

 

[Swedish Steel!]

Sweden had cedded back Scania in 1679. if it weren't for the fact that swedens ally France were the peace negotiator.. so of cause the peace agrement fell out in swedens favour.

What? in case you hadn't noticed, Charles XI absolutely refused to concede to such peace terms. When the Franco-Dutch war ended, Denmark and Brandenburg found themselves without major allies which left them unable to continue the war against Sweden in the long run. By this time, all of the Danish gains had been retaken.

Charles XI similarily had little interest in continuing the war, probably because the Dano-Dutch fleet had defeated the Swedish fleet and Kronan had capsized & blown up by itself. This led to a stalemate, and what happens in a stalemate? that's right - a status quo peace, which is exactly what was concluded. I don't know where you have heard that fantasy.

And if the Dutch hadent come to the aid of Denmark when Charles X was sieging
Copenhagen in 1658, Denmark may have been destroyed.

And the Danes repaid them for saving their nation by trying to plunder the Dutch treasure fleet just a small while later . Small details such as this are of course never mentioned in the story of how the blessed angels of Denmark had Scania stolen from them by the rotten Swedish thieves.

 

[unmerged(59077)]

I just have to note that the passion of the Danish-Swedish rivalry is highly amusing.

Not something one thinks about every day.

 

[Avisian]

Only Scandinavians care about this anyway. What about Macedonia then, even now nearly 600 years after the game time frame we Bulgarians still claim it and we entered 2 world wars because of it. DO you care? Do you know about it? Of course not, why would the rest of the community care about scandinavia then Paradox is a sweedish studio so perhaps this has got to do with it, but everyone is entitled to his own opinion and EU is a fine game as is. Modding those two provinces to loose Sweedish cores requires 3 minutes and 3 braincells

 

[Riddermark]

Gentlemen please! You are behaving like those low-life balkan nationalists..really now hehe

/end of sarcasm

 

[King Nothing]

I just have to note that the passion of the Danish-Swedish rivalry is highly amusing.

Not something one thinks about every day.

I have to agree. It's really funny. And I'm pretty sure that most of the other swedes and danes here also thinks so. We just love to hate them.

But I can understand why they had so much financial troubles. I have worked for a danish company once.

 

[LaserKlas]

What you all forget is how amazingly ugly the world map would look if Skåne belonged to Denmark!!

 

[unmerged(4839)]

Trust me, even I don't always think it's possible. I was a Resident Assistant in college (which I just graduated; now I'm in law school) and I was casually talking to a couple of freshmen about Great Britain, and they seriously had no idea where it was. What!? How are people so dumb? It's kind of frightening.

Well, and, of course, just look at our last "president" .... not exactly the brightest fellow!

It's really not that hard to believe. I don't think most Americans care about anything outside our borders.

I don't think it has as much to do with being dumb as complete apathy. My ex-girlfriend is finishing med school with high marks but was horrible at geography as well as history. I would never call her dumb.

 

[unmerged(59077)]

What you all forget is how amazingly ugly the world map would look if Skåne belonged to Denmark!!

I kind of like exclaves, within reason. It just says there's HISTORY here.

 

[Shadiiw]

I just have to note that the passion of the Danish-Swedish rivalry is highly amusing.

Not something one thinks about every day.

i agree, i dont have anything against Denmark. But its allways fun to tease them, they are like a brother you fight with sometimes but deep down you think he is ok

But then i live in Scania/Skåne so i may be because of that

 

[Timbrizcha]

yes, the scandinavian rivalry at its best. The fact that swedes jokingly looks down at scanians and have the scanian stereotype to be a stupid peasant sure does tell a thing or two...


but isn't this why we play games like Europa Universalis? to change the course of history (and beat the snot out of sweden and force them to relocate their capital to lappland AND change the name of Stockholm to something silly)

 

[Cenobite30]

It's really not that hard to believe. I don't think most Americans care about anything outside our borders.

I don't think it has as much to do with being dumb as complete apathy. My ex-girlfriend is finishing med school with high marks but was horrible at geography as well as history. I would never call her dumb.

Agreed, somewhat.

I'd also like to add that in the vast majority of places in America (i.e. outside of medium- and large-sized cities), you could live your entire life without ever having any meaningful contact with foreigners. Combine this with schools that almost consistently suck and the fact that we only have two borders (the larger of which is with a country that has the same language and a similar culture) and you have a country where there is not too much incentive to know much about the outside world.

Compare this with most European countries, where driving for a few hours will put you in a completely different country with a completely different language and culture, and you can see the difference of incentive.

People are not always good and knowing what they should know and doing what they should do, but they are almost uniformly good at knowing what they need to know and doing what they need to do.

A problem for Americans these days, however, is that they are slowly beginning to need to know these things. It's just that many people haven't yet realized it. I have little sympathy for willful ignorance, but I do understand people who want to keep their world small.

As for Americans who knock their countrymen in order that they might kiss the asses of Europeans and appear broadminded and international, please don't. It perpetuates stereotypes and probably seems servile to those you wish to impress. Americans are pretty much the same as any other nationality (i.e. there is wide enough variation that saying "Americans are [x]" is meaningless and misleading).

 

[unmerged(62478)]

Post 2# answerers this question :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:.