Why does Germany never take Oppose Hitler in Non-historical games?

[squid_hills]

What line(s) did you mod to make it 75%?

I didn't mod the files directly, I just manually set Germany to "Restore the Kaiser" in the game options tab for most of the games I play, along with "always free" wargoals (for when I want to conquer the world, but don't want to go fascist to do it).

I'd heartily agree with you if the AI could actually manage civil wars of majors in a satisfying way and they didn't turn into a grindfest.

Currently if you see a major doing a civil war you can safely assume it out of the decisive part of the game as by the time either of the sides can grind to victory the rest of the majors has basically finished the match.

Really? Is this a common occurrence in the most recent versions of the game? Because in 1.8x UK almost never has a civil war, and when it does have one it's over with very quickly. The last time I saw the UK have a civil war, I was South Africa. The UK called me into the war immediately (WT was crazy high because Japan had to manually justify on China) so I sent my army to Britain to help kick Oswald Moseley in the junk.

The war ended before my divisions arrived. It was over and done with in less than a month. And that's pretty typical of a UK civil war, from my experience. The rare French civil wars play out similarly.

The only civil wars I see that take several years to play out are the South Africa Communist civil wars. The terrain is terrible and both sides have garbage divisions and no way to equip them. That civil war usually devolves into the two sides staring at each other waiting for WT to get high enough for the UK to join and end it.

 

[Caeric]

I didn't mod the files directly, I just manually set Germany to "Restore the Kaiser" in the game options tab for most of the games I play, along with "always free" wargoals (for when I want to conquer the world, but don't want to go fascist to do it).




Really? Is this a common occurrence in the most recent versions of the game? Because in 1.8x UK almost never has a civil war, and when it does have one it's over with very quickly. The last time I saw the UK have a civil war, I was South Africa. The UK called me into the war immediately (WT was crazy high because Japan had to manually justify on China) so I sent my army to Britain to help kick Oswald Moseley in the junk.

The war ended before my divisions arrived. It was over and done with in less than a month. And that's pretty typical of a UK civil war, from my experience. The rare French civil wars play out similarly.

The only civil wars I see that take several years to play out are the South Africa Communist civil wars. The terrain is terrible and both sides have garbage divisions and no way to equip them. That civil war usually devolves into the two sides staring at each other waiting for WT to get high enough for the UK to join and end it.

The Japanese civil war tends to be very messy, assuming they go that route

 

[Duke_Dave]

They introduced this reactionary system with Germany so if you democrat France goes fascist, if you go monarchist with Britain france goes communist etc. I'd like to see that system expanded. Right now Germany always goes fascist (chance for oppose hitler is like 0.14)

 

[squid_hills]

The Japanese civil war tends to be very messy, assuming they go that route

I'd forgotten about Japan, because they go communist or democratic so rarely. You are right, though. The Japanese civil war takes a long time for the AI to resolve.

 

[grommile]

They introduced this reactionary system

Reactive, please; reactionary has a specific meaning in the kinds of contexts that apply to Vicky or HOI.

(That said, "reactionary" is a good way to describe a policy aimed at reinstating the Hohenzollerns )

 

[Dlin369]

I think originally, when the Oppose Hitler path came out France, UK, USA, didn't have alternative paths (well, France did but not a really good one). Which means Germany changing ideologies exposes the fact that the AI doesn't have any tools to really deal with the change in situation.

Hopefully now that more majors got ways to change ideology, allowing Germany to change sides would be more feasible. However, they would also have to change some minors' trees too that only really work with a Fascist germany (Netherlands comes to mind). Also key is reworking the Soviet Union and Italy - allowing the Soviets to be more aggressive if Germany shifts pro-democratic and allowing the Italians to ally with France and UK if they don't have another fascist power for support

 

[squid_hills]

Also key is reworking the Soviet Union and Italy - allowing the Soviets to be more aggressive if Germany shifts pro-democratic and allowing the Italians to ally with France and UK if they don't have another fascist power for support

If you've never seen a Democratic Germany game, I assure you the Soviet Union doesn't need anything new to make it aggressive. Germany's Democracy focuses are specifically geared toward provoking the USSR into starting a war, and will absolutely trigger a war if you proceed far enough down the branch.

 

[Dlin369]

If you've never seen a Democratic Germany game, I assure you the Soviet Union doesn't need anything new to make it aggressive. Germany's Democracy focuses are specifically geared toward provoking the USSR into starting a war, and will absolutely trigger a war if you proceed far enough down the branch.

yeah but the Soviet Union’s claims are fairly low on their tree - you need Molotov Ribbentrop to get a lot of them fast.

 

[squid_hills]

yeah but the Soviet Union’s claims are fairly low on their tree - you need Molotov Ribbentrop to get a lot of them fast.

I'm pretty sure the Soviet tree is irrelevant for Democratic Germany. When I've played Demo Germany, and the few times I had the AI do Demo Germany, the USSR declares war while I'm still going down the Central European Alliance branch. I've never even gotten to "Strike at the Source" (Germany gets war goals on the USSR) before the Soviets declare on me. Each focus you do to invite countries into your alliance spikes USSR aggression. If you invite a certain number (I don't know what the specific # is) the Russians decide to attack first. At least, that has been my experience.

The only peaceful game I ever saw with a non-Hitler Germany was the game I played where I went monarchist and then deliberately stayed away from every part of my focus tree that could trigger a war. I didn't do Focus on the True Enemy or Expatriate the Communists, and I avoided guaranteeing the Baltics and the Finns. Didn't even ask Poland to give me Danzig.

By 1943 nobody was at war. I mean, yeah, Japan had been stuck in a civil war for six years, but that didn't bother anyone not living on Honshu. Italy attacked Yugoslavia by themselves and got smacked down by the Allies in less than a year. But otherwise, there was no conflict.

Of course, this was only possible because I expressly avoided 60% of my focus tree. The devs should take note: it doesn't matter what political philosophy Germany takes; AI Germany will start a war no matter what because that is what every branch of the focus tree leads to. Though, they should probably modify "Smash the Anglo-French Colonial Hegemony" because a decolonizing UK shuts that branch down hard.

 

[kettyo]

Is this a common occurrence in the most recent versions of the game? Because in 1.8x UK almost never has a civil war, and when it does have one it's over with very quickly.

I never have seen a British civil war since they have got the strategy plans to switch ideologies (i don't remember when they got them).

 

[Jays298]

I'm of the viewpoint that if historical focuses are turned off, then it ought to have like a 50% chance of firing at the first focus. And if the player doesn't like that, they can always restart, since they are only like a few months into the game. Almost everything else is random in non-historical games anyway.

 

[Ketchup & friends]

That's because Nazis are supposed to be the big enemy that will steamroll everyone if the players dont defeat them.
The devs think that Opposing Hitler removes that threat.
But the flipside is that Nazi Germany is the easiest nation to play. (and therefore most popular)

 

[kettyo]

That's because Nazis are supposed to be the big enemy that will steamroll everyone if the players dont defeat them.

Now what you say about a German-British alliance?

 

[Ketchup & friends]

Now what you say about a German-British alliance?

It's good for asymetrical MP (2-man team vs everyone else)

 

[kettyo]

It's good for asymetrical MP (2-man team vs everyone else)

Sounds interesting

 

[Jimmyfeellucky]

The war needs a reason to start

IMO, the non-historical game should have a chance to set up certain interesting scenarios.
For example, the reformation of central powers; the Communists strongly rising up in the world; Roman pact with fascist France, Italy, Greece, Yugoslavia and Spain, ect.

The focus trees leading to each scenario, therefore, may be easier to make and more reaction to the world situation.

 

[kettyo]

Also have to consider that PDX might want at least one strong fascist country (Germany), one strong communist (USSR), and a strong capitalist country (USA) in every game so you're not screwed from the start if you plan to go with each ideology.

This might be handled differently from version Barbarossa on, like with responsive strategy plans.

Another thing to consider is that while setting Germany to have a higher chance of ahistorical is easy as it's a matter of focus choice it's much more complicated for the USA, not really possible without railroading with strategy plans from the start and also railroading some events accordingly. Actually USA going communist is kind of easy but USA going fascist is difficult and needs intentionally choosing highly suboptimal options early game. The USA tree isn't really fascist friendly so to speak