Why does Germany never take Oppose Hitler in Non-historical games?

[ChainsawBlue 36]

I am immensely curious as to why the probability of the German AI to take this decision in non-historical games is second to nothing. I read it was something like a 0.13% chance of firing, which is, pretty insane but not far-fetched as after nearly 1600 hours, and my many, many non-historical games the German AI never took that focus path, unless I forced them to in game settings.

So why?

Does Paradox not want the strongest country in the game to be a lot weaker as the German empire, thus making achievements easier to obtain?

Is it just something they aren't concerned with?

What are your thoughts?

 

[Emoneh]

The war needs a reason to start - if Germany just chills out all game then it's all build-up & no payoff. Other countries' focus trees lead them to war (USSR particularly) but the game seems balanced around Germany fighting the allies & the Soviets at the same time. Anything that throws that off much is liable to make the game either very easy or very hard for the player.

 

[sauerkrautpie]

The war needs a reason to start - if Germany just chills out all game then it's all build-up & no payoff. Other countries' focus trees lead them to war (USSR particularly) but the game seems balanced around Germany fighting the allies & the Soviets at the same time. Anything that throws that off much is liable to make the game either very easy or very hard for the player.

War always fires up somehow. Not germany but always because of someone else. For instance: Hungary demanding Transylvania fires up the war. Or Italy demanding Yugoslavia (always happens since Italian focus tree stays same)

If you won't allow Oppose Hitler without disabling the achievements, don't make non-historical achievements then. Germany gets destroyed by her neighbours in non-historical anyway.

 

[Longshanks51]

War always fires up somehow. Not germany but always because of someone else.

I agree, this low percentage chance was when major countries like France, UK and USA had no alternate paths.
And now that more countries have expanded trees, someone would most likely take Germanys place as the war starter.

 

[Spelaren]

I agree, non historical should be random.

 

[Olanov]

With the type of achievements they shovel, they really should just make Germany on non-historical have a bigger chance to choose it.

 

[kettyo]

The only thing i can think of is not to make Germany a piece of cake to take. As Germany is a very worthy prize probably everyone would declare on him at the moment their civil war has ended and they are still scattered around and weak.

Having a German puppet/occupation/collaboration would greatly boost your power no matter who you play.

Probably that's the reason the USA doesn't ever go on a civil war route either.

Only Japan goes sometimes on a civil war route out of the majors but they are somewhat defended by the sea. Also the officers still sometimes revolt in the USSR but that's a very weak civil war and even the USSR might benefit from it by getting rid of the purge maluses earlier.

 

[Ayetach]

I agree, non historical should be random.

Weighted random with modifiers enhancing the likelyhood of certain national focii being selected if circumstances encourage them would be preferable. I.e. A more interventionist USA if Britain renegs on democratic principles.

Edit: It should be noted that this already exists in the game but I do agree with OP that Germany should atleast be as willing to go other routes just as the UK does or even countries such as Czechoslovakia/Hungary when they uncommonly do the same.

 

[Spelaren]

Weighted random with modifiers enhancing the likelyhood of certain national focii being selected if circumstances encourage them would be preferable. I.e. A more interventionist USA if Britain renegs on democratic principles.

Edit: It should be noted that this already exists in the game but I do agree with OP that Germany should atleast be as willing to go other routes just as the UK does or even countries such as Czechoslovakia/Hungary when they uncommonly do the same.

That sounds like a great idea.

 

[Emoneh]

I think what this would need is some sort of balance of power/rivalry mechanic - countries should be reluctant to join factions that contain their 'rivals' & countries they have claims on. E.g. Germany & France should pretty much never be in a faction together, regardless of ideology. Then sides could form dynamically to some extent & retain some balance. Currently, countries choose factions either based on focuses (which are chosen randomly at the start of the game) or after war starts & the sides are already defined, neither of which really do this. I think people imagine Oppose Hitler is just bringing back the Kaiser then doing roughly the same thing as Nazi Germany, but imagine if Germany takes the democratic path & joins the allies. The game's just immediately over at that point.

I like the AI taking ahistorical paths generally, with some re-weighting (between the seas, blackshirts), but it needs to be really carefully done & I don't think HOI4 has the mechanics to do it well at the moment.

 

[kettyo]

I do agree with OP that Germany should atleast be as willing to go other routes just as the UK does

There is a considerable difference as Britain switches ideology without a civil war (which is odd in itself but this is the way how it is).

 

[Simone87]

I agree, non historical should be random.

Truer words were never spoken
In my games it never happened that Germany went unaligned or USA had the second civil war. I frequently see UK (especially for the Edwardian path) and France (only for the fascist/communist paths) go through their alt-history paths but nothing of all of that can remove Germany as the European juggernaut and as your competitor in the mid-long term. If the non-historical scenarios were random gamers could enjoy an increased variability of the game experience and allow me to gain the austrian-hungary achievements

 

[minderbart]

set them to random in the game settings and it becomes 50/50

 

[Goodfontana]

The war needs a reason to start - if Germany just chills out all game then it's all build-up & no payoff. Other countries' focus trees lead them to war (USSR particularly) but the game seems balanced around Germany fighting the allies & the Soviets at the same time. Anything that throws that off much is liable to make the game either very easy or very hard for the player.

No German route will make them chill. If they go for the Kaiser, they can A) be at odds with UK and France while getting AH and Italy as allies or B) Ally UK and be at odds with France and soviets. If they decide to go democratic they will be at odds with the soviets getting most of Europe as their ally through the Central European Alliance. And if for some reason they don't declare on anybody even with available wargoals, the soviets will eventually go after them or someone they protect.

I believe that, even if you make all countries completely random with equal chance to choose any route on non-historical, it is impossible to have a full game without someone doing something that'll make the whole world blow up eventually

 

[kettyo]

set them to random in the game settings and it becomes 50/50

No, the different paths have different set weights.

 

[squid_hills]

The devs gave Oppose Hitler a low % chance to fire because they wanted to make sure their WWII game had some WWII in it. They mistakenly believed that a monarchist Germany wouldn't act belligerently and try to take over the world. Having set Germany to restore the Kaiser in 75% of the games I play, I can assure everyone at Paradox that Wild Bill Hohenzollern is a rather high-strung and excitable chap, who is very eager to get his World War on. Billy the Second never takes "Expatriate the Communists". Ever. He always goes for a war with the UK and France under "Focus on the True Enemy". There is also a 65% chance he will have guarantees on the Baltic states by the time Uncle Joe Stalin decides to reclaim the Russian Empire, which means Europe gets that two-front war everybody is looking for.

Yes, WT does behave more unpredictably on non-historic games, which makes playing as a democracy more difficult. But then, if you're playing a democracy on non-historic, I'll wager you aren't planning on staying a democracy.

TL;DR Plz gib Germany more Kaiser.

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

Having set Germany to restore the Kaiser in 75% of the games I play,

What line(s) did you mod to make it 75%?

 

[Ayetach]

There is a considerable difference as Britain switches ideology without a civil war (which is odd in itself but this is the way how it is).

Certainly, but we would be remiss to say there is no risk to the UK of a civil war esp with it’s communist and fascist routes, UK also generally loses a number of its dominions much sooner if its politics does not appeal for her subjects.

The UK and Germany suffer similar setbacks, just in a manner appropriate to their own situations. But more relevant to the point of the op’s post is that I too have witnessed far more games with the UK changing up its politics than Germany, so debates aside its fair to say that the incredibly low chances would warrant adjustment so that an altered course would happening atleast uncommonly (say 10% of all non-historical games for instance).

 

[kettyo]

The UK and Germany suffer similar setbacks, just in a manner appropriate to their own situations. But more relevant to the point of the op’s post is that I too have witnessed far more games with the UK changing up its politics than Germany, so debates aside its fair to say that the incredibly low chances would warrant adjustment so that an altered course would happening atleast uncommonly (say 10% of all non-historical games for instance).

I'd heartily agree with you if the AI could actually manage civil wars of majors in a satisfying way and they didn't turn into a grindfest.

Currently if you see a major doing a civil war you can safely assume it out of the decisive part of the game as by the time either of the sides can grind to victory the rest of the majors has basically finished the match.

 

[kettyo]

What line(s) did you mod to make it 75%?

It's in file 00_on_actions.txt starting from line 1098.