Why does Fascist Korea get the short stick?

[Axe99]

Technically, Queen Vic was "Empress of India."

The Royal Navy even named one of their pre-Dreadnought battleships with the title (@Axe99 bait):

Spoiler: HMS Empress of India

View attachment 843389
(Original picture here.)

I was curious why I was tagged in a thread about fascist Korea

Later on, as I'm sure you well know, there was also an "Emperor of India". I'm not going to weigh in on definitions of political systems - down that path madness lies - but whether it's politics or ships (through-deck cruisers anyone? ), I would suggest looking at functional classifications, rather than what countries decided to call themselves - Orwell's Doublethink/Newspeak had plenty of real-life examples to draw from

Spoiler

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Emperor_of_India#/media/File:HMS_Emperor_of_India_LOC_00192u.jpg

 

[Amberle]

"Germany ... [was] not fascist" This historical revisionism is disturbing. Could you explain how a nation led by a genocidal dictator with absolute power was not fascist?



In any case, empire doesn't necessarily require imperialism. There are different types of Empire, the 'imperialist' one, the empire based on conquest instead of colonies, or the vague ranking of noble titles. Even homogenous nations can be called empires (see the Hohenzollern German Empire, named such for the unification of Germany, and predating German colonialism); the word is exceedingly vague, with different definitions depending on who you ask.

That being said, it's ludicrous to argue that Nazi Germany wasn't an empire due to a lack of colonies or complicated translations. The closest comparison may be Napoleon's French Empire. Both were military powers who subjugated large parts of Europe while focusing less on global imperialism. However, nobody argues that Napoleon didn't have an empire, so why shouldn't we call the Third Reich an Empire?



And Italy was an imperialist Empire, see the conquest of Ethiopia and the colonies in Libya, Somalia, and ambitions for more North African colonies

Just because Germany wasn't fascist doesn't make them good. I think you are jumping to conclusions. It's just that fascism and national socialism are two - when you get down to it pretty different ideologies. The west did not look down on Fascist Italy before the Italy invaded Ethiopia, and they were generally seen as allies from ww1. So it was more down to certain situations that pushed Italy into Germany's arms, and in 1936 definitely not something Italy wanted. Remember in 1934 Italy, Hungary and Austria signed the three powers pact, basically Italy guaranteeing the independence of Austria, as hitler was seen as a threat.

If remember correctly the us especially looked at Italy with great interest and fascination in this era but details are a bit fuzzy on that one.

But I understand where you are coming from, you have heard and think fascism means something it doesn't and you are using it as an umbrella term for most things bad, I get it. But just know that it's a huge simplification and rarely correct. Having said that, it doesnt mean that fascism is good.

 

[Sunforged General]

Just because Germany wasn't fascist doesn't make them good. I think you are jumping to conclusions. It's just that fascism and national socialism are two - when you get down to it pretty different ideologies. The west did not look down on Fascist Italy before the Italy invaded Ethiopia, and they were generally seen as allies from ww1. So it was more down to certain situations that pushed Italy into Germany's arms, and in 1936 definitely not something Italy wanted. Remember in 1934 Italy, Hungary and Austria signed the three powers pact, basically Italy guaranteeing the independence of Austria, as hitler was seen as a threat.

If remember correctly the us especially looked at Italy with great interest and fascination in this era but details are a bit fuzzy on that one.

But I understand where you are coming from, you have heard and think fascism means something it doesn't and you are using it as an umbrella term for most things bad, I get it. But just know that it's a huge simplification and rarely correct. Having said that, it doesnt mean that fascism is good.

It would be correct to say national socialism is technically not fascism. But to deny that National Socialism was heavily inspired by, and based on, Fascism, is incorrect. Hitler claimed Mussolini was his idol. He also claimed most of his early political moves were based on Mussolini's moves. The Beer Hall Putsch was essentially plagiarism of the march on Rome.

 

[L'Afrique]

Deutsches Kaiserreich

now give us the english translation for Kaiser, the head of the german imperial realm... wait f***

 

[Maxwell Tornado]

now give us the english translation for Kaiser, the head of the german imperial realm... wait f***

Caesar.

 

[Voigt]

Also the name back then was simply "Deutsches Reich". Only todays we call it "Deutsches Kaiserreich" to make a difference to the HRE and Nazi-Germany.

 

[LordWahu]

Germany and Japan were not fascist, and Italy just wanted what France and Britain had, colonies. The same can be said for Japan. Before ww2 generally Japan and Italy were seen as allies, and the Japan mindset to my understanding did not understand why they couldn't continue to do what Britain had done for many years previous. Stating imperalism is generally a fascist element is probably a simplification.

We have Italy as an example, and you can point at the roman ambitions and that they entered ww2. But is that because they where fascist(Mussolini however never achieved total control and authority though) or just the state of the world and the opportunity he thought presented itself? Perhaps both but it's not a very easy answer in my eyes.

You do mean World War One Germany and Japan right?

 

[L'Afrique]

Tripping over myself to explain that Germany was totes not an empire because the name was different even though all the things were the same, as one does

Now, see, Kaiser totally means Caesar, who as you must know, had the power of Imperium but was not himself what one would call an Emperor of Rome. This rank is entirely different from being called Emperor, because you see, it is the german word for Emperor, totally unrelated to your word for Emperor, in this essay I shall 1/28

 

[LordWahu]

I guess the real question is: How do you define Empire?