Originally posted by Damocles
WHY SPAIN DECLINED:
A) Hyper-inflation from an influx of gold from the New World. In the short term this was a benefit, allowing Spain (specifically Charles V) to amass the largest mercenary armies that Europe had ever seen. Long term, it was a deadly virus. Gold inflation is for all intents and purposes, no longer represented in the game.
Wholeheartedly agree. Now gold inflation does not matter, while it did. And a lot. But, I think this changes on gold inflation were produced to avoid Austria's and Castille's initial gold inflation, which produced initial unreallistic ressults in the GC. The trouble will be finding a way to repressent both, something that will be difficult the way EU2 is now.
Originally posted by Damocles
B) Just as gold inflation was peaking, the imports of gold from the New World drastically tumbled to about half their production around 1600. This extremely important event in Spanish economic history is not represented.
Again, wholeheartedly agree. There should really be an event to repressent this, with the Bankruptcies or even instead of the bankruptcies (if hard enough).
In fact, now that I think, bankruptcies should NOT be an event, as arbitrary bankruptcies are not really events. Spanish government had bankruptcies because of bad administration and the new world production of precious metals sank down so brutal and unexpectedly.
So, we are mistaking here causes and consequences. The famous Spanish bankruptcies event should be, under a more correct philosphy for events, transformed into "New world production sinks" events. If the Spanish player has put himself in the same situation the Spanish put themselves historically he of course will go bankrupt, and in fact more severely than by the meek bankruptcy events (under the current model).
Originally posted by Damocles
C) The high cost of keeping a huge mercenary army in the Lowlands all year around to suppress the Dutch rebellion, and later to fight with the emerging Dutch state. Due to changes to how revolts work, this is not a factor.
Again, I agree! With the current rebel system, you don't need the army there you used to need. Thus increasing your costs, thus able to produce a nice series of bankruptcies when you find your production has suddenly sank down.
Originally posted by Damocles
D) The vast majority of the trade which had recently been the domain of the Iberians and the Italians began shifting northwards to the centers of trade in London and Amsterdamn around 1570. Increasing Dutch and English naval prowess, privateering depredations, and colonial ambition, culminating in the annihilation of the Spanish armada hastened this considerably. Of course, the Spanish Armada was not defeated in battle. It was merely pushed in a certain direction, and mother nature did the rest. Not represented in the game.
Ah, a first point to disagree. This is covered by player decisions on military actions and internal policy sliders. Putting this as such would be too deterministic, even for me.
Originally posted by Damocles
E) The Protestant Reformation and the ensuing Catholic Counter-Reformation which had a severe effect on Catholic burghers and peasantry of Spain, as debillitating to the Catholic Italian and Iberians, as rejuvenating it was to the Protestant and Reformed English, Dutch and Scandinavian trading powers. This of course lead to the Thirty Years War, where under Olivares, Spain proceded to bankrupt itself fighting a war it was unable to afford any longer.
Spanish involvance in the german affairs should be encouraged but not determined. Again, let's determine events to a point. That was a government decision, and as such, a player decision. About CRC, well, you could tweak its production/trade bonus down.
Originally posted by Damocles
F) The birth of a strong, nationalistic and for the first time, centralized France thanks to Cardinal Richelieu and it's subsequent entry into the Thirty Years War. This was the nail in the coffin so to speak.
This usually happens anyway and is well repressented by incredible french leaders and the richelieu event.
Originally posted by Damocles
After these events, Spain was no longer considered a great power. Despite a brief comeback in the gold production, it continued to sink. Louis XIV and the War of the Spanish Succession from 1701-1714, effectively reduced Spain an extremely weak status, to where by the time the Napoleonic Era rolled around, some 70-80 years later, the Spanish were regarded as pathetic has beens, and their institutions archaic and corrupt. Soon afterwards, it's New World possessions revolted away with little discomfort.
Ah, you are wrong, here. Spain was still considered a Great power. It's just it was not considered the greatest power. Phillip V's Spain, at the end of his reign was indeed a great power.
Spain indeed managed to overcome the effects of the succession war, and expand again. But again, the series of extremely bad bourbon monarchs made Spain now really decline and the real nail on the coffin was the Napoleonic invasion.
