Why do so many people want a ck3?

[TheRealRemus]

I get that new games offer new things to introduce and new opportunities for fun game mechanics etc (and new and better performance).
But above all, I would fear that a new crusader kings title would not be as good as ck2 is right now (with all expansions at it is).
Particularly I am looking at Imperator Rome, I (and so many others) have placed all their hopes into a cross over of all the epic PDX games, but what did we get? A game which has half as many mechanics as eu4 and half as detailed character interaction as ck2 (A game which makes me think "why bother playing this when I could play that, a fully developed game?"[not taking into consideration that their roadmap is looking good and will probably bring improvements]).

When thinking of a crusader kings 3, I would be thinking of a game that is like ck2 but not ck2 otherwise there would be no need for a ck3.
What would this ck3 have that ck2 does not, more bookmarks? Bigger map with asia? more detail on characters, better management? new and more buttons? And what are those things that few dlcs can not add? (except for the asia expansion, due to code related issues)
Obviously, the age and therefore performance issues, especially the late game lag, is the biggest issue why some want a new game with new and improved coding.
But just like I said ck3 would not be the same as ck2 is right not.
For me ck2 is perfect right now, in terms of gameplay fun etc. of course there are many things that could be added. the medieval world has infinite details that can be added into this game, but those many things do not make ck2 unfinished imo. Besides, there is plenty of stuff that has been added during the last 7 years and everything made the game better. So why should the devs really bother stopping the ck2 development to create something new? If anything they should step up their development and add more to the game.

the thing I am mostly concerned about is the same thing many eu3 and hoi3 player are sad about still until today.
their loved eu3 and hoi3 are not the same as the newer and improved versions of the game they play today. Though the codes may be similar or the same the game is not, sure many things are the same and even better but others that defined the previous game are not and even gone.

If at all we do not need a ck3 but perhaps a remake of our loved crusader kings 2 as it is today (how it is in the future).

share your thoughts and thanks for listening.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

@Doomdark has said that there might not even be a game called ck3. the character mechanics that we love are no doubt something we'll see iterated in a future game but i agree that there's no compelling reason to even be thinking about a ck3 right now.

 

[Patriarch of Bub]

Considering the investment i put on ck2, i really ain't ready for a third installment.

I do hope for a few major improvements and addition, i hope that they will stay in ck2. As the years go by, i even hope to get a better computer which would solve me a lot of problems with the game.

I want to see, new religions, governments, deeper cultures, asia and much more. In ck2 though.

The potential for improvement is just so huge.

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

They might finally model logistics into the game, something that is pretty nonexistent in this one.

They might also get to rebalance vassal management and difficulty without massive baby backlash. Current ck2 has so much stat inflation, positive opinion modifiers, and lowered bar for vassal management that even the AI can keep a massive blob intact for centuries, let alone the player.

At some point in the game pacts are essentially useless. They are also a bit unhistorical, which is why it is better to adapt a different model to contain blobbing. Once you get large enough the only possible challenge is internal, and yet the larger you get the easier it is to maintain the realm. What we really need are stronger vassal vs liege interactions so that the larger the liege gets, the more he needs to focus in internal matters. If he doesn't, then the realm will easily fall apart, as many great conquerers in the period experienced.

A shame Paradox is unwilling to adapt such balance changes to CK2, as I am sure players will immediately whine about losing large chunks of land in their multi-enpire sized realm. Players really dislike handling loss, so Paradox keeps babying us, which is unfortunate for the game. This design choice is pervasive among all their grand strategy games (Total War series also,) the reliance upon external blobs to stem the player rather than legitimate internal threats.

If you beat 60% of the world in one war with your 40%, the next war you'd be fighting against 59% with your 41%. Repeat ad nauseam, with an easier time every time. Whereas that would theoretically make internal threats worse. Except it's easy as pie. External threats are inherently weak, and internal threats really are not powerful enough to be an actual threat for large realms.

 

[Woifee]

I want i too, after Victoria 3.

 

[Immortal88]

Personally, I hope they really really wrap up CKII in a very polished state and let it simmer for a few years before thinking about CK3. No bugs, no nonsensical mechanics (join the assassins as holy roman emperor anyone?), just as polished as can be.

From CK3 I would hope that a lot of good CKII event chains get efficiently recycled into the new game just to give it some serious meat on the bones from the get-go instead of releasing some gutted shell of a game.

Mechanics-wise I would hope for:

* Every character is playable, including unlanded and non-dynastic ones.
* Let me open as many interface windows in parallel as I want and give me a hotkey that fixes the last tooltip on the screen while I can hover over another interface element to open a second tooltip.
* A decent message management system with saveable presets that carry over after game updates via integrating existing into new message rules. Jesus, seriously.
* A vassal can have multiple lieges
* Cadet branches
* Let me zoom in more into a province to see different types of terrain and individual holdings. Think Knights of Honor.
* Let me pick spots for building holdings inside provinces, with different costs and time and defense values based on location.

* Let me see a 3D or nice-looking 2D rendering of holdings where I can build my buildings. Think Knights of Honor in siege view.

* Use the same 3D or 2D rendering for observing sieges. If my character is present let me give basic commands. (Less detailed than Knights of Honor, no commanding troops in real-time RTS style, just basic commands to set-up and go or corrective commands during the siege but no direct control).

* Use a 3D or 2D rendering for combat landscapes. Let me pick basic tactics and give basic commands if my character is present. (Kind of like now but let me pick the tactics manually and don't just make it a three-flank exclusive template, give us more flexibility in the army composition and setup.
* Make use of an engine that generates infinite believable permutations of holdings to make each town and castle and city unique.

* Make armies much smaller on the map and make it so multiple armies fit into a province. Make it so armies can't leave a province if an enemy army is present in the same province unless ordering a retreat. Think Knights of Honor-ish.
* Make it a game with a similar amount of information as CKII but make it a lot less visible to players. Basically, update news from distant realms based on travel time and don't let me know exact ruler attributes and traits or army numbers etc. without investing time and money into a spy network. Make me work for or spend resources for getting info which is beyond basic knowledge or reasonable estimates and that my character can't reasonably know without building an information network.
* No insta-travel or instant troop raising/dismissal or telepathic impregnation.
* A good trade and taxation system based on supply and demand.
* A pops system.
* Automate nearly everything so a player can focus on whatever they are interested in while a competent AI takes care of the rest, though ai competency could be based on character traits.
* No effing mana or anything that happens instantly at the press of a button, everything should take time as it does in real life. Instant gratifications of insta-buttons is infinitely inferior to the satisfaction of seeing long-term plans come to fruition. Current player numbers of Imperator vs. CKII should be a clear indication that people are fed up with insipid mana mechanics.

Basically, I want CK3 Knights of Honor

 

[Tomaster]

I'd personally start thinking about CK3 maybe around 2021 at the earliest.

 

[TheRealRemus]

Personally, I hope they really really wrap up CKII in a very polished state and let it simmer for a few years before thinking about CK3. No bugs, no nonsensical mechanics (join the assassins as holy roman emperor anyone?), just as polished as can be.

From CK3 I would hope that a lot of good CKII event chains get efficiently recycled into the new game just to give it some serious meat on the bones from the get-go instead of releasing some gutted shell of a game.

Mechanics-wise I would hope for:

* Every character is playable, including unlanded and non-dynastic ones.
* Let me open as many interface windows in parallel as I want and give me a hotkey that fixes the last tooltip on the screen while I can hover over another interface element to open a second tooltip.
* A decent message management system with saveable presets that carry over after game updates via integrating existing into new message rules. Jesus, seriously.
* A vassal can have multiple lieges
* Cadet branches
* Let me zoom in more into a province to see different types of terrain and individual holdings. Think Knights of Honor.
* Let me pick spots for building holdings inside provinces, with different costs and time and defense values based on location.
View attachment 489409
* Let me see a 3D or nice-looking 2D rendering of holdings where I can build my buildings. Think Knights of Honor in siege view.
View attachment 489410
* Use the same 3D or 2D rendering for observing sieges. If my character is present let me give basic commands. (Less detailed than Knights of Honor, no commanding troops in real-time RTS style, just basic commands to set-up and go or corrective commands during the siege but no direct control).
View attachment 489411
* Use a 3D or 2D rendering for combat landscapes. Let me pick basic tactics and give basic commands if my character is present. (Kind of like now but let me pick the tactics manually and don't just make it a three-flank exclusive template, give us more flexibility in the army composition and setup.
* Make use of an engine that generates infinite believable permutations of holdings to make each town and castle and city unique.
View attachment 489412
* Make armies much smaller on the map and make it so multiple armies fit into a province. Make it so armies can't leave a province if an enemy army is present in the same province unless ordering a retreat. Think Knights of Honor-ish.
* Make it a game with a similar amount of information as CKII but make it a lot less visible to players. Basically, update news from distant realms based on travel time and don't let me know exact ruler attributes and traits or army numbers etc. without investing time and money into a spy network. Make me work for or spend resources for getting info which is beyond basic knowledge or reasonable estimates and that my character can't reasonably know without building an information network.
* No insta-travel or instant troop raising/dismissal or telepathic impregnation.
* A good trade and taxation system based on supply and demand.
* A pops system.
* Automate nearly everything so a player can focus on whatever they are interested in while a competent AI takes care of the rest, though ai competency could be based on character traits.
* No effing mana or anything that happens instantly at the press of a button, everything should take time as it does in real life. Instant gratifications of insta-buttons is infinitely inferior to the satisfaction of seeing long-term plans come to fruition. Current player numbers of Imperator vs. CKII should be a clear indication that people are fed up with insipid mana mechanics.

Basically, I want CK3 Knights of Honor

I love the way you are thinking base ck2 mechanics plus those additions would make a great game!

 

[zorkman]

I agree with what OP said. No point starting CK3 until sufficient ideas to improve the game are in place, not just pretty graphics. The characterisation & role playing is the biggest positive in the game, & needs to be improved on for any future new version. In the short term, I only wish they added these to any current & future projects they do, as would surely improve them. Only got to see Imperator to see what happens with lacklustre ideas. Imagine how good that would be if you could role play all the characters in the game, instead of some boring map painter.

 

[Rupmalya.K]

Some great suggestions here in the forum for CK3 but I don't want CK3 immediately.
Rather what I want is CK like character focus RPG/GSG.In different setting but I want fantasy setting the most.

Also if they can make lords physically exist in that world and give us fun mechanics for landless player it would be awesome.
That is the closest to MB and CK hybrid we probably ever gonna get.

Fantasy setting can give a lot of creative freedom like having pop mechanics for cities,villages,towns and castle and other features that we don't have real data in most historical time.

I know many in this forum doesn't want them to go away from the historical setting though.

We are getting a lot of games where we are playing as the spirit of the nation/civilization and it is high time for us to get character driven one.

 

[Rubidium]

A major advantage of CK3 would be being able to strip out some of the clunkier workarounds they've implemented to add features the original game wasn't really built for. Merchant Republics are, by all accounts, kind of a giant mess from a coding standpoint, to the point that the devs are nervous about messing with them too deeply. Likewise the nomads are treated as king and emperor tier, even for tiny nomadic realms, simply because that was the only way they could make Horse Lords and the Mongols both work.

They could also build in the ability to include more bureaucratic realms from the beginning, rather than using feudalism as a base and tweaking things slightly.

I'm still not ready to give up CK2 (one of my favorite games of all time), but I can certainly see an argument for it.

 

[Jaevelklein]

I wanted ck3. Then I saw Imperator Rome. Now I don't want ck3 anymore.

 

[Rupmalya.K]

Personally, I hope they really really wrap up CKII in a very polished state and let it simmer for a few years before thinking about CK3. No bugs, no nonsensical mechanics (join the assassins as holy roman emperor anyone?), just as polished as can be.

From CK3 I would hope that a lot of good CKII event chains get efficiently recycled into the new game just to give it some serious meat on the bones from the get-go instead of releasing some gutted shell of a game.

Mechanics-wise I would hope for:

* Every character is playable, including unlanded and non-dynastic ones.
* Let me open as many interface windows in parallel as I want and give me a hotkey that fixes the last tooltip on the screen while I can hover over another interface element to open a second tooltip.
* A decent message management system with saveable presets that carry over after game updates via integrating existing into new message rules. Jesus, seriously.
* A vassal can have multiple lieges
* Cadet branches
* Let me zoom in more into a province to see different types of terrain and individual holdings. Think Knights of Honor.
* Let me pick spots for building holdings inside provinces, with different costs and time and defense values based on location.
View attachment 489409
* Let me see a 3D or nice-looking 2D rendering of holdings where I can build my buildings. Think Knights of Honor in siege view.
View attachment 489410
* Use the same 3D or 2D rendering for observing sieges. If my character is present let me give basic commands. (Less detailed than Knights of Honor, no commanding troops in real-time RTS style, just basic commands to set-up and go or corrective commands during the siege but no direct control).
View attachment 489411
* Use a 3D or 2D rendering for combat landscapes. Let me pick basic tactics and give basic commands if my character is present. (Kind of like now but let me pick the tactics manually and don't just make it a three-flank exclusive template, give us more flexibility in the army composition and setup.
* Make use of an engine that generates infinite believable permutations of holdings to make each town and castle and city unique.
View attachment 489412
* Make armies much smaller on the map and make it so multiple armies fit into a province. Make it so armies can't leave a province if an enemy army is present in the same province unless ordering a retreat. Think Knights of Honor-ish.
* Make it a game with a similar amount of information as CKII but make it a lot less visible to players. Basically, update news from distant realms based on travel time and don't let me know exact ruler attributes and traits or army numbers etc. without investing time and money into a spy network. Make me work for or spend resources for getting info which is beyond basic knowledge or reasonable estimates and that my character can't reasonably know without building an information network.
* No insta-travel or instant troop raising/dismissal or telepathic impregnation.
* A good trade and taxation system based on supply and demand.
* A pops system.
* Automate nearly everything so a player can focus on whatever they are interested in while a competent AI takes care of the rest, though ai competency could be based on character traits.
* No effing mana or anything that happens instantly at the press of a button, everything should take time as it does in real life. Instant gratifications of insta-buttons is infinitely inferior to the satisfaction of seeing long-term plans come to fruition. Current player numbers of Imperator vs. CKII should be a clear indication that people are fed up with insipid mana mechanics.

Basically, I want CK3 Knights of Honor

OMG!!
I'll sell myself for that(no one would buy though).
This will even be more awesome than getting Baldur's Gate III for me.
I want exactly what u suggested.
Really if that is what CK3 would be I want CK3 before VIC2..yes I am breaking my vows.

 

[Arcvalons]

A CK3 would need to include or reimagine ALL the features from all CK2 DLC. Also no mana please.

 

[Chef Boyardee]

I'm pretty burned out on CK, to be honest. I've been playing regularly since the day it came out and I feel like I've gotten most everything I can out of the game. New updates and expansions don't really excited me, even when they add things that I find interesting or that I've wanted for a long time. I think this is normal - I've invested a lot of time into the game - and I'd imagine a lot of other people feel this way too. I think it would be wise for Paradox to either wait a bit on CK3, or to make it significantly different - not so much that it's no longer CK, but enough that it offers an experience that I can't get in CK2. At this point, CK2 has had almost a decade of active development and I don't think that the CK3 that most people have in mind, a reskin with UI improvements, will do it for most of the people that have been here since the beginning.

 

[STABBY5]

Really its because ck2 is ancient and can't keep up technically. There are a lot of things that aren't possible in such an old game compared to say stellaris or HOI4. It's in a great spot right now but multiplayer is still awful with desyncs requiring restarts of the game, as does simply pressing single player. Imagine the game that was designed with multiple government types in mind from the start. No weird viceroy workarounds. Non buggy merchant republics. Just that sort of thing. I'd rather see Victoria 3 first myself.

 

[Chlodio]

telepathic impregnation

Does that really happen? I don't recall seeing incidents where the character is leading armies or imprisoned while their wife gets pregnant.

 

[Ezumiyr]

On one hand I agree with you. A ck3 that is basically ck2 modernized, while ck2 is still relatively young and full of DLCs, is a bad idea.
However there are at least two aspect of CK2 that need a lot of work for a spiritual successor: the RPG side of the game, and tactical combat.

People like CK2 because it's about characters, but most of the time we only get events with an obvious good pick. That's not enough for interesting stories.
Battles are also quite boring. Sometimes you get events, which is good, but overall it's very basic and it could be more fun.

I would also add to this that a completely historical game is probably not the best idea for a CK2-like game. As we've seen with the mods and the popularity of more fantasy-inclined DLCs, a game like this is a fantastic basis for a lighter approach to the middle ages, even including some more fantastical content like vampires or djinns. Personally I'm tired of pseudo-historical strategy games, and I think most players are in the same boat (just look at the last TW). Video games are definitly not how you will learn history properly and it's pretty hard to design your game to portray the particular events of an era (just look at Imperator).
So I'd like a spiritual successor to CK2 that is also about playing dynasts, but with just one bookmark and a world filled with fun potentialities.

 

[Zoomun]

Does that really happen? I don't recall seeing incidents where the character is leading armies or imprisoned while their wife gets pregnant.

While you're right about imprisoned characters never getting anyone pregnant commanders certainly can.

 

[Maizel]

I definitely want a CK3, but I think CK has quite some life left in it. And even when it's 'done' it will be one of the best strategy games ever.

CK3 can only disappoint, though. seeing how barebones the releases are lately. How long will it take for CK3 to even come close to the content CK2 has?