Why do Metallurgists in 2300 still just as effective as back in 2200?

[klingonadmiral]

Hear me out.

Scientific progress is one of the driving themes of Stellaris. Whereas once a fleet of 10 Corvettes armed with simple mass drivers was a significant force, two centuries later packs of thunder-throwing battleships roam the stars, led by even more massive Titans. A civilization that saw every single outpost as a significant resource investment now casually encases an entire star in a metallic shell.

But you know what apparently always stays the same? The way metallurgists turn minerals into alloys. 6 units go in, 1 unit comes out. More "advanced" buildings only give you more slots, not more efficient processes. And while it is funny to imagine a genetically perfected, immortal being forging the iron with the same hammer his great-grandfather had used for the same purpose; themetically it just makes no sense. If the power of science allows us to pull minerals out of a black hole, why doesn't the same science open a portal to the Elemental Demiplane of Alloys?

Or to put it into Victoria 2 terms: Where are my factory input, throughput and output modifiers?

 

[Peter34]

It certainly makes sense to have a “ladder” of Eng/Industry Techs, say one tier 2. 3 and 4 each giving +10% output to Alloy production, and similarly a ladder to improve Consumer Good productivity.

 

[Bobylein]

In my empire in the late stage, no one has to work the metal anymore, it's fully automated via synths!

 

[krios41]

I raise you this!
on my forge world i have a factory, quite a peculier factory... it produced 4 alloys when worked... where do these alloys come from? no one knows, they just materialize from thin air..
Its an odd factory...

 

[wingren013]

There should be a tech that gives +5% to artisans and metallurgists. Like how you can get +10% to miners. Or maybe just all specialists.

 

[Hyomoto]

That sort of does exist in the form of buildings that improve the output of those jobs.

 

[corny.1234]

In my empire in the late stage, no one has to work the metal anymore, it's fully automated via synths!

Please use Xeno slaves like everyone else

 

[Hopit]

Please use Xeno slaves like everyone else

You let Xenos live? Heresy

 

[Dreagon]

I do feel like something should be there. Maybe not increase the amount of alloys you get per mineral but at least allow a job to process more minerals.

 

[RoverStorm]

What you're looking for is "Specialist Output" or "Metalurgist Output", such as forge worlds I think. But admittedly in Vicy2 terms that's only Output efficiency. Also, very rare modifier.

Maybe there is a "Metalurgist upkeep reduction" (input eff.) somewhere in the files, but I haven't seen it in-game. And so far anything that "processes" things has always been improved by building more of it (think: Shipyards), so I don't think thoroughput will be included.

 

[AmpsterMan]

This is a great point. It would be cool to have some tier 2-5 techs that increase the efficiency of some specialist manufacturing jobs. Specifically, the different rare resource and civilian/alloy buildings.

 

[Lavaflow900]

I just did a quick test by pulling the artisan and metallurgist output mods off the building that gives it and put it on an empire edict to see if it will work empire wide and it seemed to. I'm pretty sure that means someone could mod/make a series of techs to improve them just with that modifier. I might take a crack at it on Sunday, but I've no experience with that sort of stuff so no guarantees.

Spoiler: Full text of the mod edict I used to test

##########################################################################
# Empire edicts
##########################################################################

@Edict4Cost = 1

@Edict2Duration = 36000

#################
#Resources
#################


Metallurgists_Test = {
    length = @Edict2Duration
    resources = {
        category = edicts
        cost = {
            influence = @Edict4Cost
        }
    }

    modifier = {
        planet_metallurgists_produces_mult = 0.50
        planet_artisans_produces_mult = 0.50
    }
        
    ai_weight = {
        weight = 0
    }
}

 

[ffsffs1]

I agree, but just want to say that you get the ministry of production later in the game which gives +15% to both alloys and consumer goods. But that's pretty much it besides other modifiers that are available from either turn 1, or early-mid game (high stability).

 

[Diettinger]

I raise you this!
on my forge world i have a factory, quite a peculier factory... it produced 4 alloys when worked... where do these alloys come from? no one knows, they just materialize from thin air..
Its an odd factory...

Likely a secret stash in the basement.
Seriously though: metallurgy has not changed all that much in the pass hundreds of years in that units of input go in, and units 9f output go out. The quality of the output has gone up, the labour down, and the energy requitements of the process up too. (Another input)
The quality portion is part of the abstract part of the game...

If you want to change this I would suggest that minerals + a strategic resource (they seem to act as catalysts) or a special building may result in a new specialized output material. The input volumes, however, will remain close to the same except for energy and capital which need to go up.

Standard economic model with technological processes.

If you want it, I will create it for you. Right now I am busy with creating new events to take advantage of the new richness of 2.2.

 

[sortulv]

But you know what apparently always stays the same? The way metallurgists turn minerals into alloys. 6 units go in, 1 unit comes out. More "advanced" buildings only give you more slots, not more efficient processes. And while it is funny to imagine a genetically perfected, immortal being forging the iron with the same hammer his great-grandfather had used for the same purpose; themetically it just makes no sense. If the power of science allows us to pull minerals out of a black hole, why doesn't the same science open a portal to the Elemental Demiplane of Alloys?

Actually late game forges are 5 times more efficient than early game forges. However, in late game, people only have a single workday/week. So, by hiring 5 times as many people, you get staff for the entire week.

 

[Avil]

You let Xenos live? Heresy

Please.
After a couple of generations you'll not be able to tell, who's a part of what species. Pop growth is a king

 

[mag_zbc]

While just improving output wouldn't make sense (2200: a tonne of copper and a tonne of aluminum comes in, two tonnes of alloy comes out; 2300: two and a half tonnes come out), metallurgists should be able to just process more raw materials into alloys (2200: 6 minerals -> 1 alloy; 2300: 12 minerals -> 2 alloys)

 

[Diettinger]

While just improving output wouldn't make sense (2200: a tonne of copper and a tonne of aluminum comes in, two tonnes of alloy comes out; 2300: two and a half tonnes come out), metallurgists should be able to just process more raw materials into alloys (2200: 6 minerals -> 1 alloy; 2300: 12 minerals -> 2 alloys)

Like not serving a good wine before it's time... some things simply take a certain amount of time.
Background (jump to the end for ideas)
Purifying metals from ore is generally done through chemical processes. Typically it involves heating and oxidizing the raw materials and then separating the unwanted materials... Carbon through the creation of CO2 and other materials through gravametric settling and stratification.
Heating a mass of still takes time... which can be accelerated with greater energy. Processes such as uses of centrifuges or electrofluoresis could accelerate the separation process, but would be likely to deacrease the batch sizes. Chemical reactions can be accelerated somewhat as well... but volume in vs volume out will largely be static per load.
Finer refinement will take longer... in essence repeating the process with more precise processes to get to the finer materials.

Ideas
I would like to see advanced materials become available in the game. Higher inputs (ie add strategic resources) and investments in additional facilities (zero g refineries in orbitals) to produce these advanced materials which would then be consumed by enhanced products. Want to build a ship with higher hull and armor points? You must use the new advanced materials.

On a side note, I rebuilt the ship design process in my version of 2.1 (and am updating it) to include all this stuff. My build includes different shapes hull techs and builds (spheroid, cube, wedge, etc) which give different ship characteristics. Ranges are shorter, and adding components adds mass to the ships which affect the end speed and evasion.
As a result... advanced materials which decrease mass make a big difference.

 

[sortulv]

Ideas
I would like to see advanced materials become available in the game. Higher inputs (ie add strategic resources) and investments in additional facilities (zero g refineries in orbitals) to produce these advanced materials which would then be consumed by enhanced products. Want to build a ship with higher hull and armor points? You must use the new advanced materials.

That is in the game now - the rares are exactly this.

 

[Diettinger]

That is in the game now - the rares are exactly this.

I am suggesting even more rares...