I struggled to take France as Germany the other day.
I dunno why I suck as Germany tbh.
I dunno why I suck as Germany tbh.
Why do many players consider HoI4 to be easy/too easy?
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The game IS easy if you truly understand the basic mechanics of it. Far easier than other Paradox games. The AI just doesn't stand a chance once you understand how to properly utilize air support and armor. A lot of beginner players i've encountered don't really understand the importance of these. As mentioned the suicidal AI is another massive problem. The AI will attack you over and over again until it runs out of equipment. I'm at a loss for why this still hasn't been fixed
What tanks and planes? I beat United Front and Japan 1v2 as Manchukuo by using only 10 width.
Without accepting the surrender, so I also had to invade mainland
I play as the US and the game always ends the same way. The Soviets declare war on the Japanese right after they are defeated and I cheat and make them go in civil war. There is no way I can stop them from taking the defenseless former Japanese Empire and face an army of over 400 divisions to my less than 200. Granted I'm getting better. In my last run I ran through France pretty quickly but that was due to a a civil war in Italy that I'd been formenting since 1936. The first time I tried it Mussolini beat them back before I was in position to make a difference. I've even seen games where Italy has taken most of Africa before I turn the tide. I also was able to plow through the home islands of Japan since my navy had them cut off from defense, but I had no shot of taking them on in SE Asia. Tried it once and after I took Siam, the Raj broke through the stalemate only to have all the Chinese reserves come streaming down. 256 hours in, sliders all the way to help me and I still don't see the game as being easy.
While you are talking about Asia, I think it's still relevant to point out the, ahem, Unthinkable nature of facing the Soviets after the fall of the Axis.
As many have said already, the AI. And that's always going to be the defining factor in difficulty for GSG/RTS games.
However the mechanics themselves are relatively easy to handle - production, research, templates. Once you know a way that works, you're sorted for life against the AI as it never changes it's strategy.
Then we have no real restrictions on nations power- you can have insane numbers of troops in the game, manpower is essentially the only thing stopping you from spamming out OP divisions that will wipe the floor with the enemy. Currently tank spamming can be done against the AI with ease, even under historical circumstances. This will change with fuel.
Land Warfare is easy- spam out 14/4 templates with SF doctrine. Use Fighters and CAS and you'll beat everything. Mix in 40 width tank divisions and it makes it even easier.
Air Warfare is easy- just spam out more fighters that you've rushed- more than the enemy and finish your air doctrine.
Naval Warfare is easy- just spam out Carriers or Battleships and get Air Superiority in any region you're patrolling.
You could say all these things could be countered by the AI.. but the AI doesn't do it, plain and simple.
However the mechanics themselves are relatively easy to handle - production, research, templates. Once you know a way that works, you're sorted for life against the AI as it never changes it's strategy.
Then we have no real restrictions on nations power- you can have insane numbers of troops in the game, manpower is essentially the only thing stopping you from spamming out OP divisions that will wipe the floor with the enemy. Currently tank spamming can be done against the AI with ease, even under historical circumstances. This will change with fuel.
Land Warfare is easy- spam out 14/4 templates with SF doctrine. Use Fighters and CAS and you'll beat everything. Mix in 40 width tank divisions and it makes it even easier.
Air Warfare is easy- just spam out more fighters that you've rushed- more than the enemy and finish your air doctrine.
Naval Warfare is easy- just spam out Carriers or Battleships and get Air Superiority in any region you're patrolling.
You could say all these things could be countered by the AI.. but the AI doesn't do it, plain and simple.
Last game Japan lost over 2 mil. men in naval transports, while I (USA) controlled the seas. Invasion of Japan was easy after that.
So yea, some broken machanics make this game pretty easy.
So yea, some broken machanics make this game pretty easy.
I'm playig Germany and I can't win against UK or USSR. And when I play USSR I can't win against Germany. I am using 40 width but it's not really working. I have thousands of airplanes and bomb away the British navy but I still can't beat it. I can't land on the island because the British have 100 divisions there. And my troops can never win against the Soviet ones.
I'm guessing I just suck at the game but I often feel like I'm the only person who finds this game difficult. I was under the impression that this game was baby-level-easy compared to EU4 but I'm finding the opposite is true.
When I spam 14/4 I don't win. When I build battleships and carriers they are just destroyed. Naval invasions are impossible since my troops just get encircled after landing. I don't know what's going wrong and I'm not improving one bit.
Compared to EU4 warfare this game is like 4d chess, nothing makes sense.
Have you played EU4? I mean doing a WC in EU4 isn't too easy because you're largely restricted by time. But EU4 is miles easier for me than HoI4.
I might just be retarded but I can't ever really win wars against the AI even after playing for 150+ hours. I would love if someone could show me how they play because nothing in this game seems easy for me.
TBF EU4 gives you loads of freebies to expand and wars usually are decided by one battle of doomstacks
*Surplus of equipment (everything should be surplus or at least not in large deficit).
*Full strength and ORG attacking units.
*Planning-bonus.
*Complete Air-superiority.
*Generals and Field Marshals.
*Full Supply.
If you have all of the above and stop attacking when you don't you'll mostly win. It's as easy as that.
Also I've often seen people attacking with red numbers for months on end which is a surefire way to burn through your equipment stockpiles in no time.
Green and over 50% is ok, anything else (for a novice player) means you're doing something wrong.
Personally I can say I suck at EU4.
Played it for about 35h have been totally overrun by the sheer complexity of countrymanagement and the unclear combatsystem.
I additionally watched LPs and Mechanicsguides about EU4 but it didnt settle down...
These games are so different in any point. HoI4 is like Age of Empires; managing units and fight all day long.
EU4 is like the direct opposite of it.
Some people can do this easier and the others the other. Different main focusses feature different playstyles.
Played it for about 35h have been totally overrun by the sheer complexity of countrymanagement and the unclear combatsystem.
I additionally watched LPs and Mechanicsguides about EU4 but it didnt settle down...
These games are so different in any point. HoI4 is like Age of Empires; managing units and fight all day long.
EU4 is like the direct opposite of it.
Some people can do this easier and the others the other. Different main focusses feature different playstyles.
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Yes, HoI4 is super easy. Have been playing PDX games since EU1 (1999) and it's hands down the easiest one.
Few points I'd mention:
- countries have no agenda whatsoever other than following [shallow] scripts, National Focuses or Faction leaders.
- no badboy/aggressive expansion mechanics
- liberal occupation rules (no pun intended)
- even more liberal peace mechanics
- AI
- super-short timeframe, rendering manpower losses totally irrelevant - Pirrhic victory is never a problem.
Few points I'd mention:
- countries have no agenda whatsoever other than following [shallow] scripts, National Focuses or Faction leaders.
- no badboy/aggressive expansion mechanics
- liberal occupation rules (no pun intended)
- even more liberal peace mechanics
- AI
- super-short timeframe, rendering manpower losses totally irrelevant - Pirrhic victory is never a problem.
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I dont use 40W unless its Tanks.
I've tried 40W Infantry, and the only way I find it feasible is if you have bodies to turn the rivers red, like the Soviet Union or China.
Or you use Superior Firepower, which is my Least-Used Doctrine.
So who knows, maybe I just play the game wrong despite my success with CAS and Micro'd ARM Divisions to create pockets while the AI exhausts itself against me.
I've tried 40W Infantry, and the only way I find it feasible is if you have bodies to turn the rivers red, like the Soviet Union or China.
Or you use Superior Firepower, which is my Least-Used Doctrine.
So who knows, maybe I just play the game wrong despite my success with CAS and Micro'd ARM Divisions to create pockets while the AI exhausts itself against me.
Most people would rightfully point their fingers at the AI. But let's be honest that this is because after having spent a decent amount of hours learning the game and min-maxing, it is only natural that you will fully understand not just how the game works, but also the deficiencies of the AI. This is the case not just in HoI4 or just Paradox games, but in all games out there. Learning the game mechanics is step one, understanding how the AI works is step two. The fact that you can point out the problems/shortcomings of the AI is proof that you have committed to this game and have overcome the learning stage.
It might not be the best example but even in chess when the world champion of that time, Garry Kasparov, played for first time again the "AI" aka "Deep Blue" (an IBM supercomputer) he lost. He lost not because he didn't know how the game (chess) plays out, but because he didn't know how the AI works and "thinks". Hence, in one of the moves that decided the game, he considered Deep Blue's move as if it was as a real human and was bluffing. In later years however when he learned how the AI works and "thinks" he had much easier time forcing the game to a tie (because it was still hard to beat a machine with an algorithm that executes millions of calculations per second to decide the best move) and later on even beat it with ease. But that was part of a learning process/curve to better understand the AI and its shortcomings.
Perhaps one could make a case that learning the game and the deficiencies of the AI in HoI4 might be easier than the "x" or "y" game, but we still have to consider that you need to spend a certain amount of time to learn these things. HoI4 has a steep learning curve for a new player but after overcoming that part, the curve becomes a straight horizontal line meaning that there is no element of surprise and unexpected because you fully understand how the system works and what to expect from it, therefore it becomes an "easy" game. But to be frank, this is the case with most games out there, be it a strategy game, an mmorpg or whatever else. If the game was so easy from the beginning (even for someone with no previous exposure to HoI games) we wouldn't see daily threads in the forums or the subreddit of "How I am supposed to beat X" or "How I am supposed to win as X" and all these other questions delving into the core mechanics of the game. These posts are created by people who haven't overcome this curve yet, but they constitute proof that a curve exists (no matter how small or big). Every strategy game and every AI has its problems and shortcomings but in order to spot them you need to spend time to learn the game. If you could spot a bad game system and bad AI from the moment you bought the game and started your first campaign, that would be a different case and would say a lot about the "quality" of the game or rather lack of it.
For instance, if you go and play a Total War game for the first time with no prior experience in TW games you will find it really hard (especially Shogun 2 which is rightfully considered the hardest TW to this date). There is a lot of min-maxing, diplomacy, construction of your provinces, playing battles and on top of that there is the "Realm Divide" mechanic that makes every remaining faction on the map uniting together and attacking you after a certain point in the campaign. For a new player this is a game breaking mechanic and even nowadays, after so many years since its release, there are still new players who buy the game and post on the forums about how "unfair" the Realm Divide mechanic is, and how they lost all their alliances they forged throughout the game after that mechanic, and how the lost their campaign due to that. You may think its unfair until you learn how the game plays out, how to min-max and how to beat the game. After that it is obviously going to be considered an easy game because you have overcome this learning curve. I have spent thousands of hours in TW games and even hold a record for fastest campaign in one of them, so from my perspective it is an "easy" game and I can say a lot about how the AI is stupid and how the most optimal strategy revolves around beating the game with the most basic units (Ashigaru units).But that's because I have spent plenty of time learning the game and learning how the AI operates through trial and error and through gaming experience. Generalizing and saying it is easy and should be easy for everyone because it feels like that to me now would not be proper.
To conclude, I would like to recommend to everyone who has overcome the learning stage in HOI4 and feels that the AI no longer gives him a challenge, to try out Expert AI 4.0 with hardest settings (Insane Dynamic bonus, High Dynamic Desperate Defense, Dynamic Reinforcements On and reduced AI attrition). Trust me, it will give you a good challenge and it's going to catch you off-guard the first time not knowing what to expect. The dynamic reinforcements no longer make it so that you wait till the enemy suicides and loses all of his stockpiled equipment or that you just encircle a few of his divisions and gg easy. It will require all your attention in order to not be humbled by the AI. Try it.
It might not be the best example but even in chess when the world champion of that time, Garry Kasparov, played for first time again the "AI" aka "Deep Blue" (an IBM supercomputer) he lost. He lost not because he didn't know how the game (chess) plays out, but because he didn't know how the AI works and "thinks". Hence, in one of the moves that decided the game, he considered Deep Blue's move as if it was as a real human and was bluffing. In later years however when he learned how the AI works and "thinks" he had much easier time forcing the game to a tie (because it was still hard to beat a machine with an algorithm that executes millions of calculations per second to decide the best move) and later on even beat it with ease. But that was part of a learning process/curve to better understand the AI and its shortcomings.
Perhaps one could make a case that learning the game and the deficiencies of the AI in HoI4 might be easier than the "x" or "y" game, but we still have to consider that you need to spend a certain amount of time to learn these things. HoI4 has a steep learning curve for a new player but after overcoming that part, the curve becomes a straight horizontal line meaning that there is no element of surprise and unexpected because you fully understand how the system works and what to expect from it, therefore it becomes an "easy" game. But to be frank, this is the case with most games out there, be it a strategy game, an mmorpg or whatever else. If the game was so easy from the beginning (even for someone with no previous exposure to HoI games) we wouldn't see daily threads in the forums or the subreddit of "How I am supposed to beat X" or "How I am supposed to win as X" and all these other questions delving into the core mechanics of the game. These posts are created by people who haven't overcome this curve yet, but they constitute proof that a curve exists (no matter how small or big). Every strategy game and every AI has its problems and shortcomings but in order to spot them you need to spend time to learn the game. If you could spot a bad game system and bad AI from the moment you bought the game and started your first campaign, that would be a different case and would say a lot about the "quality" of the game or rather lack of it.
For instance, if you go and play a Total War game for the first time with no prior experience in TW games you will find it really hard (especially Shogun 2 which is rightfully considered the hardest TW to this date). There is a lot of min-maxing, diplomacy, construction of your provinces, playing battles and on top of that there is the "Realm Divide" mechanic that makes every remaining faction on the map uniting together and attacking you after a certain point in the campaign. For a new player this is a game breaking mechanic and even nowadays, after so many years since its release, there are still new players who buy the game and post on the forums about how "unfair" the Realm Divide mechanic is, and how they lost all their alliances they forged throughout the game after that mechanic, and how the lost their campaign due to that. You may think its unfair until you learn how the game plays out, how to min-max and how to beat the game. After that it is obviously going to be considered an easy game because you have overcome this learning curve. I have spent thousands of hours in TW games and even hold a record for fastest campaign in one of them, so from my perspective it is an "easy" game and I can say a lot about how the AI is stupid and how the most optimal strategy revolves around beating the game with the most basic units (Ashigaru units).But that's because I have spent plenty of time learning the game and learning how the AI operates through trial and error and through gaming experience. Generalizing and saying it is easy and should be easy for everyone because it feels like that to me now would not be proper.
To conclude, I would like to recommend to everyone who has overcome the learning stage in HOI4 and feels that the AI no longer gives him a challenge, to try out Expert AI 4.0 with hardest settings (Insane Dynamic bonus, High Dynamic Desperate Defense, Dynamic Reinforcements On and reduced AI attrition). Trust me, it will give you a good challenge and it's going to catch you off-guard the first time not knowing what to expect. The dynamic reinforcements no longer make it so that you wait till the enemy suicides and loses all of his stockpiled equipment or that you just encircle a few of his divisions and gg easy. It will require all your attention in order to not be humbled by the AI. Try it.
Spend some time with the let's play videos and the AARs, and practice with some "easy" countries (USA for naval, Soviet Union for land - or one of the more powerful minors like Brazil, Australia or Sweden). As @Secret Master pointed out there are a lot of complex factors, and simply sending your forces out with the command "RAWR - FITE!" isn't going to end well.
You can also keep an eye on the forum for players occasionally posting they can't win. When people here get a look at their screnshots or savegames they often find the same mistakes being made by n00bies: Using the battle planner too much, not keeping enough equipment for their divisions, ignoring terrain, weather, supply, command and minister modifiers etc.
I recently jumped into my first real naval war as USA thinking the battles were mostly a crap shoot - far from it. Combined arms and logistics works at sea as well - Staying stocked up on carrier planes, screens and subs and getting your big ships repaired QUICKLY makes a huge difference, and keeping balanced fleets at sea helps each type cover the others' weaknesses.
Stick with it, but don't always stick with the same thing. If something isn't working ask around and try something different.
@kkhan, I couldn't agree more. I stopped playing this game at around 750 hours because for the most part it got boring. I picked it back up with the new DLC, and tried all the majors a time or two. Got stale again. I didn't realize how much better of a job I could be doing until I started using Expert AI. Yesterday I wanted to see how much better I got so I spun up a German game with no mods. I got all the way to a US invasion in late 43. (Playing historically up until the USSR invasion btw)
Not sure what speed you're playing at, but I'd suggest slowing it down to speed 1-2-pause, when it all kicks off. You can micro-m a lot more then and be aware of more things going on, and study why your not wining in combat areas x,y,z, is terrain, weather, the enemy has Air-superiority etc.
Nice list. I'd like to add that width is something to pay attention to. Don't put 30 divisions in a single province and push forward like they are all going to fight.
Supply is one thing that most newer players completely miss. And it can really screw an army up.
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