Morale didn't play a (major) role in that battle. You just said, that Portugal caught you unloading troops, that explains it all. If they got you with their 17 heavies, that is a "close to perfect stack" (at least far better than your 32 heavies + different ships) If you later moved in your heavies (mind it, in a not so well-composed stack) your transports were already doing the fighting, so it's no wonder you lose that engagement badly. Or am i mistaken?
Why do I loose naval battles in 1.22.2?
- Thread starter slackerpants
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Why do 32 heavies get smashed by 17 heavies, with no other qualitative difference than 1 maneuver pip? unless you rolled straight 0's i have no idea. naval combat seems really off this patch, or maybe its just the naval CW change making rolls actually matter, whereas you never paid attention to it before.
No it was two big stacks from the start. No moving in later. And as you can see I only lost 3 transports but 27 heavys.
If I am not mistaken, the 32 heavies don't actually fight in this case, as he was surprised while unloading troops. So his own heavies just were a menacing decoration in the Background, while his transports (and maybe galleys) got slapped around by the 17 hostile heavies.
Even if there is a naval combat between 17 heavies and 32 heavies, the 32 won't secure victory as they are, simply put, too many. Naval combat width is 32 max(?) so 11 heavies take up (more than) the max width. With some reserves, that puts an optimal heavy stack on maybe 15-20, depending on your preferences. Anything more than that simply will NOT help, unless you bring the reinforcements in a complete different stack. I guess it's similar to the mountain battles of older patches
Edit: Ok, ninja'd by slackerpants' Response, but the latter part of my post still holds true: 32 is not necessarily better than 17 in this case
Even if there is a naval combat between 17 heavies and 32 heavies, the 32 won't secure victory as they are, simply put, too many. Naval combat width is 32 max(?) so 11 heavies take up (more than) the max width. With some reserves, that puts an optimal heavy stack on maybe 15-20, depending on your preferences. Anything more than that simply will NOT help, unless you bring the reinforcements in a complete different stack. I guess it's similar to the mountain battles of older patches
Edit: Ok, ninja'd by slackerpants' Response, but the latter part of my post still holds true: 32 is not necessarily better than 17 in this case
Yea, but that should mean he'll lose the battle, not his ships. If he lost more than two thirds of them that means they participated in combat.
Maybe a ton of bad rolls? Really hard to judge.
Another thing that's possible is that he lost 10 heavies and you lost 23. The remaining 6 are the ones he captures, which gets calced in in the recap.
Still a nasty number.
Does Portugal have Quality?
Maybe a ton of bad rolls? Really hard to judge.
Another thing that's possible is that he lost 10 heavies and you lost 23. The remaining 6 are the ones he captures, which gets calced in in the recap.
Still a nasty number.
Does Portugal have Quality?
No ideas that affect ship combat that i know of, you can see his ideas in the first screen. :/
Portugal captured 3 galleys and 3 transports according to the screenshot.
Letters of Marque could be enabled.
Only gives +5% durability though. Doesn't explain the whole picture, but if that one's active it'd be a start.
Only gives +5% durability though. Doesn't explain the whole picture, but if that one's active it'd be a start.
naval morale is practically even, only heavies did fighting until france ran out of heavies, neither side has any CA or durability bonus, both have +1/+2 admirals, both usng only threedeckers, both with age ability for naval engagement width, the only difference is 10% engagement width from admiral, so 35 vs 37,5 engagment width, or 12 heavies fighting 13(or 11v12 depending on rounding).
either you're rolling 0's vs 9's for most of the fight or something's broken (or your info is wrong)
either you're rolling 0's vs 9's for most of the fight or something's broken (or your info is wrong)
No policies are active, you can see that in the first screenshot.
I suppose there could be some event, or ruler trait, OP should check that out if possible. Still, looks like a whole lot of 0's vs 9's to me.
I might say a stupid thing but no one considers this. Are you sure your fleet was 100% life bar ? It happened to me to forget to repair my fleet after some battles and got engaged with 20% life on 50% of my ships xD
No naval ruler traits, though I have played on a couple of years now so I can't say for sure. I guess it could be down to pure bad luck combined with low health ships or something. I will try and document some more naval battles and see how they go, I just have had several of these where I feel I should have won but instead lost badly.
Looking over this I'm pretty confident that you were lacking health on your ships, which combined with ships losing morale when allied get sunk, good rolls, superior engagement width (manuver is very strong on admirals) and potentially durability event/ruler.
With that said, hard to know without a save.
With that said, hard to know without a save.
Ship health isn't likely. I've seen this too. Full CW of heavies + then some loses to sub CW of heavies + light ships despite equal tech/ships/ideas. There is some reproducible method to win with fewer ships that isn't being mentioned here. I don't know what it is, but I've seen it happen enough times. This isn't a matter of 9's vs 0's or some such...it would be like going into land combat not knowing how some of the values interact. You'd lose sometimes, because you don't know the rules/factors and thus don't take steps to fix them in your favor.
^does happen, but in those cases I've normally had lights/galleys/transports end up in the fight somehow. In this case it was the heavies fighting.
No, in the cases I'm describing the heavies died. All 20+ of them vs the enemy's 3-5 heavies and light ships.
I lost so many fleets to this during my first 100 or so hours of the game.