Why did PDX decide to sell Expansion passes?

[linen]

I could understand a super deluxe pass that cost stupid money if it included 'literally everything that might be made with HOI4.'

But a singular expansion pack? It's like getting a handjob, not even reaching climax and then Johan asking me for some more money upfront just to promise me he will finish it later, but nothing more, that'll cost extra. It's pretty much telling me to go and fuck myself. Then some other guy that had the same deal before me is telling me it's a good deal because he is trying to justify to himself why he didn't get off but not to worry, that will come later, but not all of it.

It's just rude. And only idiots that don't know any better think it's a good deal. And it ain't the money, it's the principal of it. And then someone is telling me that there is a bunch of 'free' shit included which should already be included as if it was something I should be happy about.

But I guess I shouldn't hate Paradox, should just hate humans for lapping this shit up like it's great. Damn fools.

 

[SaydaNeen]

No, I know that. I am not talking about the Poland stuff, but the Expansion Pass.

Well they aren't cutting anything from the game so in your post b) would be the relevant statement and my answer is, I guess it just comes down to your opinion of the company, your trust with the company and how much you want to support the game. I don't like expansion passes either to be honest. It reminds me too much of that early access bullcrap on steam. But I am a history buff especially with WWII stuff and their history with EU expansions is good so for now PDX has my support and my trust. For now. I wouldn't do this with EA or Ubisoft or Activision. no way..

 

[EmperorNero]

I don't like people saying 'Consumer Unfriendly' when talking about season passes. I don't buy them, but it's also misleading to say they're consumer unfriendly. People. as consumers, have the choice to support the devs now and buy the pass or wait until they know if they want the expansions. It doesn't harm your experience in any way. The DLC will be there when released and it will give capital to continue the development. I don't see the issue.

I, however, do not like day one DLC. Paradox I can forgive a little bit because its just cosmetic, but that still means they were using resources that could've went into developing the game and making it better on something to milk money out of those 'DLC completionists'.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Well they aren't cutting anything from the game so in your post b) would be the relevant statement and my answer is, I guess it just comes down to your opinion of the company, your trust with the company and how much you want to support the game. I don't like expansion passes either to be honest. It reminds me too much of that early access bullcrap on steam. But I am a history buff especially with WWII stuff and their history with EU expansions is good so for now PDX has my support and my trust. For now. I wouldn't do this with EA or Ubisoft or Activision. no way..

That very much depends on how you view the inclusion of the DLC tank models, but I don't see any point in yet another debate on that. I am happy to support Paradox because I enjoy some of their games, and so I have purchased the Cadet edition. I won't support any form of 'season pass' (call it whatever you want), however, and so do not opt in to these deluxe edition type things.

 

[Slickepinnen]

After contemplating the decision for quite some time I have come to the conclusion that I will not buy the Field Marshal-edition, but simply settle for the second tier cost. I reached this conclusion because it is my current suspicion that introducing "Season passes/Expansion vouchers" for Paradox-games will have long-term negative effect on their development.

Today I have the trust for the men and women at Paradox Development Studios to create well-worth expansions for HoIV that will satisfy the consumers who trusted them with purchasing the season-pass. However, if the sale of season-passes prove to be successful Paradox will inevitable issue similar offerings with their future creations. It is my assumption that even if the pioneering launches of these models are satisfactory there will come a time (sooner or later) when a "season-pass" yields an expansion that will not be worthy of the money invested in it beforehand. This would happen due to negligence that would eventually develop ,if not in the developers, at least in the publishers (who according to my suspicion could evolve into being much less invested in the development of their games).

It is also my fear, with more season-passes being offered and appreciated, that offering "season-passes" would become the norm in Paradox-retailing. If the developers of the games has already received funding for an expansion they will be less inclined to produce content that is worth all of the invested money which would result in the first two (or more depending on the construction of future expansion-passes) being of lesser quality than those who come afterwards.

Since it is my current belief that Paradox and her community benefits most from the selling-model they are deploying as of now I encourage other fans of Paradox-games to refrain from purchasing the Field Marshal-edition.

 

[SaydaNeen]

I could understand a super deluxe pass that cost stupid money if it included 'literally everything that might be made with HOI4.'

But a singular expansion pack? It's like getting a handjob, not even reaching climax and then Johan asking me for some more money upfront just to promise me he will finish it later, but nothing more, that'll cost extra. It's pretty much telling me to go and fuck myself. Then some other guy that had the same deal before me is telling me it's a good deal because he is trying to justify to himself why he didn't get off but not to worry, that will come later, but not all of it.

It's just rude. And only idiots that don't know any better think it's a good deal. And it ain't the money, it's the principal of it. And then someone is telling me that there is a bunch of 'free' shit included which should already be included as if it was something I should be happy about.

But I guess I shouldn't hate Paradox, should just hate humans for lapping this shit up like it's great. Damn fools.

And people wonder why game developers stop listening to fans....

 

[linen]

And people wonder why game developers stop listening to fans....

Don't insult the game developers, I am talking about the marketing & sales departments.

 

[Wimpola]

It's only two DLC's. I think they're experimenting.

And content packs

 

[SaydaNeen]

Don't insult the game developers, I am talking about the marketing & sales departments.

I'm not insulting anyone :-S

 

[SniperTianhao]

If I recall correctly, we can get CKII and Hundred Years' War spirits when we purchase the cheapest edition of EUIV. But this time we can only get one free DLC and music packs

 

[Darkath]

We got some interesting metrics on why the community *LOVES* our expansion passes.

1) We know how much our deluxe editions of pre-orders sell compared to regular editions.
2) For HoI4, the difference is enormous, in a positive ratio for the deluxe edition.

It seems that the average HoI4 fan wants to get 55-65$ value of expansions and dlc for far cheaper, and paying it now in one payment.

From your precedent messages it kinda sounds as if you're saying "i don't personally like it but it sells".

I love paradox and you guys because you make games you want to play, you don't go into the easy Mass Market route like every other company, even though it might sell more.
You think about what's fun for you and don't think only about making what sells.

I think you should extend that to marketing. If you guys at paradox don't believe in expansions pass, you shouldn't do it, period. "we do it because it sells" is a bad argument and part of the slippery slope you warned us about. EA do things because it sells. Paradox do things because Paradox genuinely believe they are fun and are good value.

Now if the HOI4 teams believe it's a good idea and are confident that expansion pass bring value, it's all good and we'll see how it goes. But please if you don't like them, don't systematically put them in your next games just because it sells. Do what you wanna do.

 

[Maizel]

Why ?

The developers of HoI4 likes it, the customers loves it. Its not gonna change now. And I am 100% convinced we'll do season passes for all games we make.

Pdox' opinion on Season passes changed fast. Not so long ago I've heard Paradox calling it 'a slippery slope' and say they don't like the idea of season passes.

 

[oldguy]

We got some interesting metrics on why the community *LOVES* our expansion passes.

1) We know how much our deluxe editions of pre-orders sell compared to regular editions.
2) For HoI4, the difference is enormous, in a positive ratio for the deluxe edition.

It seems that the average HoI4 fan wants to get 55-65$ value of expansions and dlc for far cheaper, and paying it now in one payment.

I think this says it all...... no matter what your opinion is.

 

[Mivo]

If the developers of the games has already received funding for an expansion they will be less inclined to produce content that is worth all of the invested money which would result in the first two (or more depending on the construction of future expansion-passes) being of lesser quality than those who come afterwards.

I have a different view on this. I feel that an expansion pass motivates a developer to deliver solid expansions, because if they don't, customers won't be as likely to purchase future expansion passes. It's in the developer's best economical interest to meet customer expectations and, ideally, exceed them.

Also, if an expansion pass sells well, it provides the company with a budget (for the expansions) that consists not only of prospective money (basically, an estimate how much money these expansions might make), but also of tangible right-here-and-now money. From that perspective, expansion-pass fueled expansions may become better and bigger because there is less financial risk involved and they might not have to be as conservative and cautious.

There is also the aspect that expansion or season passes probably aren't bought by the majority. I believe it's chiefly enthusiasts who pick them up, people who are above-average fans of a franchise or product. In the entire life cycle of a product there are probably far more players who didn't buy a pass (I believe that expansion passes are chiefly purchased at the start of a game's life), and companies will want to sell expansions and DLCs to this group of customers, especially those who bought the game after release, as well. This, too, provides incentive to make expansions as good as possible.

The fear that expansion or season passes lead to lower quality expansions isn't backed by my admittedly fairly limited personal experiences with this sales model. I've bought three games with season passes (that worked like Paradox's passes in the sense that they were for a specific number of upcoming expansions/major DLCs), and in all three cases the overall quality was superb. Some expansions will always be better (or rather: more popular) than others, e.g. in case of Borderlands 2, the Tiny Tina DLC expansion was arguably better received than the Hammerlock one, but that happens with regular expansions and DLC as well. It's not an inherit issue with expansion passes.

I feel that expansion passes are good deals for people who like a franchise and who already know that they will more than likely purchase all the content that will be offered for a game anyway. So why not pick it up right away so that it's out of the way, especially if you save a little and get some extras? Whether it's preferable to sell expansion passes separately or bundle them with an edition, is probably a different subject with varying view points. Bjorn commented on that already, too.

 

[Dichologos]

Wasn't ME3's day 1 DLC the Prothean pack? It includes a new character available at the very start of the campaign, has numerous interactions with other characters, and takes place during the main story. It's a collective effort that basically every department (writer, artist, vocalist, programming, testing, etc.) is involved in, quite unlike Paradox's modeller/composer's discrete extra cosmetic work.

Bit late in my reply, but I was referring to the Hearts of Iron IV situation, not Mass Effect 3 - even if there was a useful diagram I think better applies to this situation.

I never actually played Mass Effect 3, as I felt the story went downhill in 2 (they lost the lead writer halfway through to switch to The Old Republic), plus they took out customization and such at that point. Then 3 came out, and I had zero interest in playing it, especially given the bad press surrounding it for various reasons (pre-order "bonuses" being only one small part).

If content is fundamental to the game - as in, not something that could have conceivably been put into "pre-production" except at the beginning with everything else, then I can't really understand it being made as a pre-order bonus. If content is something that can be separated out however, such as cosmetics or music or even small amounts of content that don't drastically affect the overall gameplay, that's another story.

 

[Number 7]

We got some interesting metrics on why the community *LOVES* our expansion passes.

1) We know how much our deluxe editions of pre-orders sell compared to regular editions.
2) For HoI4, the difference is enormous, in a positive ratio for the deluxe edition.

It seems that the average HoI4 fan wants to get 55-65$ value of expansions and dlc for far cheaper, and paying it now in one payment.

When you make good games and solid expansions of course i want to buy more

 

[JakeCourtney]

Good expansions translate into more sales for the next one. As long as they don't go cheap production value on these first two expansions, then expansion pass buyers will be saving a bit of money by buying on faith.

 

[Maizel]

Good expansions translate into more sales for the next one. As long as they don't go cheap production value on these first two expansions, then expansion pass buyers will be saving a bit of money by buying on faith.

At least giving them money up front will make them more motivated to make a product as good as it can be!

Oh, wait. They already have your money.

 

[JakeCourtney]

Well, if they ever want to sell any future expansion passes. Then they know to make them worthwhile.

 

[JungleJames]

I'd gladly pay them $150 for a game if it meant ALL future expansions were included. It's already the sort of practice common among AAA studios. Face it gentlemen, their going public has put the shareholder above the fanbase.