Why did I acquire this duchy?

[Walter Raleigh]

I am King of Wallachia. I have just randomly acquired within my realm the Duchy of Toledo in Spain and I'm now its liege.

I'm not quite sure how or why I've acquired it, though. The duke who now controls it, a Frenchman, has just usurped it and I wasn't really aware of his existence prior to me becoming his liege.

His daughter, who is now heir to the duchy, was married to my late uncle, who was also a duke in my realm.

I could see how I might become liege to the Duke of Toledo's daughter (by marriage to my uncle) or to their children, but I can't see how I became the liege to the Duke of Toledo himself.

Any ideas?

 

[SaphireSeas]

Did the now-a-duke inherit parts of Toledo before usurping the title?

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

The succession system can get pretty complex. Check the history for the Duchy title.

 

[gdj]

Does it actually matter? If you don´t want it, grant the duke independence.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

I looked at a save from the previous year.

The now-Duke of Toledo was then a bishop in a bishopric in France, under a French Duke liege (based in Spain) and part of the Kingdom of France. The Duchy of Toledo was also then part of the Kingdom of France.

The bishop had a weak claim on the Duchy of Toledo as he was the uncle of the old Duke of Toledo. In the older save, Toledo is involved in the "Toledan Revolt War for Bishop Berenger's Claim on Toledo". He evidently won as, in the later save, the duchy history shows he "conquered it as a claimant" and the old duke is in his dungeon.

Also, in the save from a year previously, France was defending in a Pisan-French antipapal war, although I'm not sure if that's relevant.

It's an interesting story, but I still don't know why I've ended up as his liege!

Supplementary questiom: what shall I do with him?

My duke cousin is due to inherit the Duchy of Toledo and I'm not sure if I want him to have it. I could grant Toledo independence, but it would still be inherited by my cousin. Unless, perhaps, I try and marry someone to the new Toledan duke, who's 69, so he produces an alternate heir?

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

I'd say you keep the duchy, Maybe you should connect the two sections of your kingdom?

 

[Walter Raleigh]

I'd say you keep the duchy, Maybe you should connect the two sections of your kingdom?

I married him to a young 23 year-old Croatian courtier who's a greedy indulgent wastrel. The Duke quickly got her pregnant and she bore a son. Then I granted independence to the Duchy of Toledo.

As far as I can tell, they're happy together (she likes him +36, and he likes her +49). The duchy is back part of the Kingdom of France now (voluntary vassalage, perhaps?).

And so the Strange Case of the Bishop of the Albi concludes, although the mystery of how I came to be his liege remains...

 

[StarSword]

And so the Strange Case of the Bishop of the Albi concludes, although the mystery of how I came to be his liege remains...

Simple enough. I'm guessing you have Free Investiture (most players do) and that the actual Kingdom of Castille or Andalusia (which one Toledo is part of varies by start date) either doesn't exist or is controlled by the Umayyads. What probably happened was the bishop was a landless claimant who had ended up in your Spanish duchy somehow, possibly as a result of a conquest, and that your duke appointed him to his bishopric. The rest is just RNG factionalism. And because bishops count as barons and he's under your control, he became Prince-Archbishop of Toledo under the Kingdom of France. Landed claimants or inheritors become part of their liege's realm on inheritance.

I did something similar once, using a bishop's weak claim to conquer Ossraige while I was creating the Kingdom of Éire.

I would've kept the duchy unless the guy started being a pain in the ass.

 

[StarSword]

I would've kept the duchy unless the guy started being a pain in the ass.

Let me expand on why, a bit, since I hit "Post" too soon. A bishop who controls a duchy is called a prince-archbishop. You need to keep yourself in their good graces to get taxes and levies but they're very useful: they have a ton of secular power, which is a big bonus to cardinal elections, which means you could potentially get a pope from your realm (though it's unlikely; the cardinals favor Italians unless Rome's culture has changed). And if you have free investiture as I previously assumed you did, you just have to appoint him an heir on the Religion screen and you're pretty much set for the Prince-Archbishop of Toledo having a positive opinion.

As a side benefit, the next prince-archbishop will inherit the prior one's original temple, and will be disliked by the controller of that county (-25 for Desires the Bishopric of Whatever). This helps control factionalism in your realm.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Hmm, I have Papal Investiture. Could the bishop have been transferred from his bishopric in France to my Wallachian duke's bishopric by the Pope for some reason? In which case, would the fact that the bishop was my Wallachian duke's grandfather be purely coincidental?

If the bishop Duke of Toledo was previously a bishop in one of my Wallachian duke's counties, that would explain why the duke was the bishop's liege. The bishop could then potentially have launched a war with his weak claim on Toledo, and succeeded. But if he became a duke, the equal of his liege (the Wallachian duke), would that automatically transfer the liegeship to me, as realm king, or would he gain independence (since he can't be equal rank as his liege).

 

[StarSword]

Hmm, I have Papal Investiture. Could the bishop have been transferred from his bishopric in France to my Wallachian duke's bishopric by the Pope for some reason? In which case, would the fact that the bishop was my Wallachian duke's grandfather be purely coincidental?

That's possible, but I was under the impression the AI used randomly generated Lowborn bishops in the case of papal investiture. Weird.

If the bishop Duke of Toledo was previously a bishop in one of my Wallachian duke's counties, that would explain why the duke was the bishop's liege. The bishop could then potentially have launched a war with his weak claim on Toledo, and succeeded. But if he became a duke, the equal of his liege (the Wallachian duke), would that automatically transfer the liegeship to me, as realm king, or would he gain independence (since he can't be equal rank as his liege).

Yes. You cannot rule a vassal of the same rank as yourself, so the prince-archbishop, duke rank, becomes independent of the Duke of Wallachia and a direct vassal of the Kingdom of Wallachia, if it exists, or independent if not.