Why debasing makes sense and you should stop complaining.

[GalaXion24]

Ever since the "debase currency" option was revealed, people have been complaining about it giving corruption and not inflation, even insisting that loans should have to be repaid, and give corruption while debasing just gives a bit of inflation. Let me tell you why corruption makes sense. First of all, you're thinking too much of modern economics. In the olden days, people used things like gold coins. What were talking about, is coin debasement, which is taking a bit of that precious metal off each coin, so that it still looks the same, but has less metal in it. This way, you can make, say eleven coins out of ten. Now yes, these new minted coins are technically worth less, but people are not supposed to know about that. Corruption is more the issue. The mints (or someone) had to be convinced this was a good idea, probably through a share of the money. What is that if not corrupt? Also it potentially gives quite a bit of blackmail material to several people, which means more shady deals in your empire.

So yes, corruption makes sense, stop complaining about it.

 

[Adrian Gaming]

Ever since the "debase currency" option was revealed, people have been complaining about it giving corruption and not inflation, even insisting that loans should have to be repaid, and give corruption while debasing just gives a bit of inflation. Let me tell you why corruption makes sense. First of all, you're thinking too much of modern economics. In the olden days, people used things like gold coins. What were talking about, is coin debasement, which is taking a bit of that precious metal off each coin, so that it still looks the same, but has less metal in it. This way, you can make, say eleven coins out of ten. Now yes, these new minted coins are technically worth less, but people are not supposed to know about that. Corruption is more the issue. The mints (or someone) had to be convinced this was a good idea, probably through a share of the money. What is that if not corrupt? Also it potentially gives quite a bit of blackmail material to several people, which means more shady deals in your empire.

So yes, corruption makes sense, stop complaining about it.

It should theoretically just give both, but that's probably a bit harsh for the amount of money you actually receive from it.

 

[Gnostek]

imho, debase currency is OP if you're a horde past 1480 since, you know, you don't care about MP

 

[GalaXion24]

I just said corruption makes perfect sense. It could also give some inflation as well though. I won't argue the balance of it. Although, just throwing it out there, espionage, administrative and defensive combine to give amazing corruption reduction, which means you've got all the money in the world.

 

[jdavis86]

I just said corruption makes perfect sense. It could also give some inflation as well though. I won't argue the balance of it. Although, just throwing it out there, espionage, administrative and defensive combine to give amazing corruption reduction, which means you've got all the money in the world.

Isn't that just -.2 corruption a year?

 

[GalaXion24]

I think it's 0.3 or something with policies. The point is that's 0.3 free corruption reduction. That makes a huge difference when otherwise you'd pay large sums of money, making it not so much better than a loan. Corruption just increases monarch point costs and you can easily ignore 1-2%. In other words, you can take out free money every 7 years or so, or when you need the money (say, to embrace an institution), you can take, for example, five of them, leaving you at ten corruption, but a large part of that is already going down by itself. You can just throw something from your excess income at it to speed it up.

 

[eon47]

Inflation and corruption as mechanics don't model reality well--the former is too weak, while it's not clear what exactly corruption is meant to represent (why, for instance, does conquering territory affect it?). Given that they don't make sense to begin with, sure, why not have debasing give corruption but not inflation? It works from a gameplay standpoint, at least.

 

[I'm gaming]

First of all, you're thinking too much of modern economics.

people are not supposed to know about that.

Do you know who is Gresham? Economy of pre-modern era doesn't work in the same way with that of modern era, but it also has its own logic which is similar with modern logic in some points. And of course, people in pre-modern era knew about debasing very fast. Debasing has affected economy very fast and meant inflation since Roman empire.

If we make economy simulation of 1444-1821, loan increases corruption and debasing increases inflation. But Europa Universalis is grand strategy 'game' and has long been dependent on loan system which increases inflation(Oh my! Interest rate and bond price are proportional!?!?), so I just say 'This shouldn't work like this' once and don't care about this anymore. If you say 'It works like this because of practical issues, so deal with it', then yes, it is right. But you shouldn't say 'It makes sense'. Though it is understandable, it doesn't make sense.

 

[Chaingun]

Debasing does 'not make sense' from a realism perspective, but the name was kept ever after changing around the mechanic because it sounds cool. I think it's pretty much a "gameplay > reality" feature in every way. That said, it's legitimate to argue about how it works in gameplay.

AI does use it for free money when possible, etc.

 

[jPaolo]

Debasing does 'not make sense' from a realism perspective, but the name was kept ever after changing around the mechanic because it sounds cool. I think it's pretty much a "gameplay > reality" feature in every way. That said, it's legitimate to argue about how it works in gameplay.

AI does use it for free money when possible, etc.

Is corruption made deliberately so "spiraly" i.e. the more you have it, the harder it gets to get rif of it?

 

[Jorlem]

Debasing does 'not make sense' from a realism perspective, but the name was kept ever after changing around the mechanic because it sounds cool. I think it's pretty much a "gameplay > reality" feature in every way. That said, it's legitimate to argue about how it works in gameplay.

AI does use it for free money when possible, etc.

Out of curiosity, what was the mechanic originally?

(Also, you've forgotten to toggle your dev post switch.)

 

[GalaXion24]

Ok, yes I never said it was perfectly realistic, but at least it makes sense that it gives corruption. That is not it's only aspect, but it's relatively accurate, as far as game mechanics go. Now we could have inflation over as well, I don't know if that's better from a gameplay perspective.

On a separate note corruption itself doesn't make sense, realistically. The is no zero corruption, because just staying in power means you need to keep certain people loyal and offer them better deals than your rivals could. And even if they're all good people, they need to do the same one layer down. Corruption is intrinsic to power. Too little corruption would mean as soon as a more corrupt person comes along he can bribe a critical mass of powerful people and remove the ruler from the throne. Simply because the current ruler wasn't doing that already. Democracies are the same, though more complex. The reason democracies spend more on people is because the people elect the rulers. Say we have city people and candidate A wants them to vote for him. The city people want new roads, so he promises roads. He's elected, now he has to get the roads buolt or the city people will replace him with candidate B who will more reliably serve their interests. It's basically the exact same thing as half the stuff we call corruption.

I'm not arguing to change it, btw. I'm just saying.

 

[Yxklyx]

I think it's 0.3 or something with policies. The point is that's 0.3 free corruption reduction. That makes a huge difference when otherwise you'd pay large sums of money, making it not so much better than a loan. Corruption just increases monarch point costs and you can easily ignore 1-2%. In other words, you can take out free money every 7 years or so, or when you need the money (say, to embrace an institution), you can take, for example, five of them, leaving you at ten corruption, but a large part of that is already going down by itself. You can just throw something from your excess income at it to speed it up.

You also get corruption reduction when ahead of time in Diplo/Admin so wait until then to get free money.

 

[GalaXion24]

You also get corruption reduction when ahead of time in Diplo/Admin so wait until then to get free money.

Not to mention of your ruler also just do happens to be incorruptible.