why change researching from teams to the way it was in HOI1?

[mikey1871]

Yes, i'm sure there will be some or lots of HOI players that will just slam me for asking this question, But I want to know why Paradox reverted to the researching fashion that we as a group of HOI1 players asked Paradox to change researching and they did in the vastly more FUN game called HOi2.

SO now I'm asking them... "why Paradox? why did u revert researching to the way it was done in HOi1?

also why did u revert Diplomacy back to the way in witch it was done in HOI1 as well? we as players of your games asked you to change these 2 portions of game-play and you did and HOI2 was made much more fun to play, but now you seem to have gone back to what we, your customers, did NOT want to see.

Did you think we wouldn't remember the things that we didn't like in HOI1?

This is called a RTS game, not a RTS simulation of a game.

Games are supposed to be fun. Simulations are not fun; simulations are just work that looks like it's fun.

 

[Scryder]

Sorry, I haven't played any previous HoI games. So can you explain what exactly is wrong with Research and Diplomacy as it is currently?

 

[GAGA Extrem]

I am sorry to disappoint you, but imo the new tech system is far superior to HoI2. Replacing research teams with practice and leadership was a great idea. The HoI1 tech system was very good imo - it had tons of historical information and the branches / level system worked quite well.

Returning to the roots isn't always a bad idea. HoI3 offers the possibility for semi-historical and even non-historical outcomes in more ways than HoI2. But research teams were one of the main reasons why HoI2 was a rather static game: China was never able to keep up with techs, even if they conquered all of Asia. With HoI3, they will still lag behind due to leadership, but specialisation yields much better results in both production and research.

About diplomacy - no idea why they reverted to HoI1. Maybe it was because the system resembles the historic struggle of ideologies quite well.

And I am also sorry, but HoI3 is not a real RTS, it is a turn based Grand Strategy Game. If you want RTS: go and play Company of Heroes, if you want turn based strategy games: play Civ IV. Paradox mainstreamed the HoI series with the 3rd release, if it isn't enough for you: Sorry. You can always activate AI control for any part of the game that is too stressful.

I understand your point, but I fear you have simply bought a game that is not suited for your needs. Paradox games are no casual games - and honestly: I hope they won't become casual some day... There is room for improvement, but tech and diplo system are really not the priorities...

 

[Polycrates]

They mentioned in one of the developer diaries or something that they tried really hard to find a place for research teams in the new research system, but in the end weren't able to.

I personally think the current research model is phenomenal, particularly in its ability to link all the facets of research, production and usage into a single model. It's pretty much the model I've always wanted for a strategy game. How many times were you frustrated in HoI2, when you'd developed your interceptors and CAS right up through 1944, built them by the hundreds, and had them flying daily since 1939 to be the terror of the skies - and then you wanted to build a longer-range fighter, only to find that you'd have to start from scratch, and all your expertise in slightly-different single-engined aircraft counted for nothing? Or carriers vs CVLs?
The doctrine trees were extremely proscriptive, based on the particular tactics that happened to be used in history, often because of the unique situation one of the powers found themselves in (volkssturm in 1944 etc). No flexibility for adapting your doctrines to your own tactics and trying to do things differently.
Etc etc.
Sure, the tech teams had character, but the HoI2 tech model was FAR from perfect, and the elegance of this new model more than makes up for it in my eyes.

 

[mllfun]

The current system is very elegant.

 

[Charles Louis]

I thought HoI2 was a step backwards in the tech area. The current system with so many choices, practical and theoretical is much better than so few techs and the tech teams.

 

[unmerged(56084)]

Hoi3 tech

I think both HOI 1 & 2 are great games. After a couple of times playing, I finally got used to the research teams in HOI2. HOI 3, we are back to the challenging task of planning, budgeting and executing our research objectives.

One thing that annoys me is that the GAR infantry tech tree is with the irregular forces (Militia). In HOI2, it was with the infantry tech tree, and this was actually more true to life. Garrison units are from the regular army, and are trained the same as regular troops. Garrison units are less mobile since they are created for guarding stationary objectives; ports, coastal provinces, major industrial areas...etc. We have to waste precious leadership points because of this....

 

[bouzoulll]

I agree with mickey 1871 for diplomacy but not "entirly" for research

 

[Charles Louis]

One thing that annoys me is that the GAR infantry tech tree is with the irregular forces (Militia). In HOI2, it was with the infantry tech tree, and this was actually more true to life. Garrison units are from the regular army, and are trained the same as regular troops.

This is easy to fix in moding. Though if you move garrison to the infantry, it makes sense to reduce the militia techs from four to two, I'd call them Milita adaptation and Militia adaptation.

 

[unmerged(174591)]

I'm a big fan of the HOI3 research system , think its very well planned.

 

[unmerged(131342)]

Another chime for the greatness of Hoi3 research. The way production and research are tied into each other is great, much more realistic. There's only one thing missing, that'll need to be added in HoI4 likely; the use of equipment and research. Because really one of the main reasons we got from the Pz.IV with a 50mm short-barrel to 88mm panthers and from the Bf109 to the Me262 in such a short period of time is the fact all equipment had the perfect testrange: an active battlefront, where the tools could be used, but also the enemy could be "inspired" by them to make even greater tools.

 

[unmerged(139259)]

why change researching from teams to the way it was in HOI1?

Because it is much better now. Actually the way technology research is handled in HOI3 is one of the features I'm looking forward most of all. It resembles the good old times of HOI1 when research was fantastic in that you could do each thing part by part while its complexity is now finally remade into a more understandable shape.
Simply the best.

And about diplomacy? What's so wrong with it? (Instead of it is now divided into two categories - Diplomacy and Politics)?

 

[prince_blucher]

I preferred the tech approach of HOI 1 over HOI 2, so I'm pleased we have reverted back to a refined version of the HOI 1 tech tree in HOI 3.
Prince

 

[telesien]

I loved tech teams and while I understand why is the new system better, it is just much less fun for me...

 

[unmerged(164760)]

There's only one thing missing, that'll need to be added in HoI4 likely; the use of equipment and research. Because really one of the main reasons we got from the Pz.IV with a 50mm short-barrel to 88mm panthers and from the Bf109 to the Me262 in such a short period of time is the fact all equipment had the perfect testrange: an active battlefront, where the tools could be used, but also the enemy could be "inspired" by them to make even greater tools.

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly but I'm under the impression that Hoi 3 already models "field testing": You send your units to fight and die on a battlefield. This increases your practical knowledge which in turn speeds up your research.

 

[Slyguy3129]

Yes, i'm sure there will be some or lots of HOI players that will just slam me for asking this question, But I want to know why Paradox reverted to the researching fashion that we as a group of HOI1 players asked Paradox to change researching and they did in the vastly more FUN game called HOi2.

SO now I'm asking them... "why Paradox? why did u revert researching to the way it was done in HOi1?

also why did u revert Diplomacy back to the way in witch it was done in HOI1 as well? we as players of your games asked you to change these 2 portions of game-play and you did and HOI2 was made much more fun to play, but now you seem to have gone back to what we, your customers, did NOT want to see.

Did you think we wouldn't remember the things that we didn't like in HOI1?

This is called a RTS game, not a RTS simulation of a game.

Games are supposed to be fun. Simulations are not fun; simulations are just work that looks like it's fun.

Because the one in HOI2 was to dumbed down. HOI1 is still the best but at least HOI3 made a step in the right direction again.

 

[Polycrates]

Another chime for the greatness of Hoi3 research. The way production and research are tied into each other is great, much more realistic. There's only one thing missing, that'll need to be added in HoI4 likely; the use of equipment and research. Because really one of the main reasons we got from the Pz.IV with a 50mm short-barrel to 88mm panthers and from the Bf109 to the Me262 in such a short period of time is the fact all equipment had the perfect testrange: an active battlefront, where the tools could be used, but also the enemy could be "inspired" by them to make even greater tools.

The cool thing is that the tech model is flexible enough that you could very easily mod this in - doctrines (and a few other things) already use land/sea/air combat experience as tech speed modifiers. No big deal to add that in to your equipment techs as well.

 

[JASGripen]

From a dry academic perspective the HoI3 system got some virtues.

The HoI3 system is actually well fit into a post structuralist (like Pierre Bourdieu) way of looking at society. What you do is determined by what you have done before (habitus), you are structured to do certain things by your accumulated pool of experience.

But you also got a certain freedom to stray from that path and by that restructure yourself, widening the space of possibilities. E.g. If Germany really wants to focus on a carrier fleet she can do that, even if it is against the nature of what she knows and "should" do.

 

[Raph]

Yes, i'm sure there will be some or lots of HOI players that will just slam me for asking this question, But I want to know why Paradox reverted to the researching fashion that we as a group of HOI1 players asked Paradox to change researching and they did in the vastly more FUN game called HOi2.

SO now I'm asking them... "why Paradox? why did u revert researching to the way it was done in HOi1?

also why did u revert Diplomacy back to the way in witch it was done in HOI1 as well? we as players of your games asked you to change these 2 portions of game-play and you did and HOI2 was made much more fun to play, but now you seem to have gone back to what we, your customers, did NOT want to see.

Did you think we wouldn't remember the things that we didn't like in HOI1?

This is called a RTS game, not a RTS simulation of a game.

Games are supposed to be fun. Simulations are not fun; simulations are just work that looks like it's fun.

In my opinion the research system is the very best new feature of Hoi3, because it's dynamic, feels more realistic than tech teams and gives you freedom while forcing you to consider your long-term strategies.

And, by the way, maybe you should try to separate what YOU think from what "WE" think.

 

[Sirveri]

Because the one in HOI2 was to dumbed down. HOI1 is still the best but at least HOI3 made a step in the right direction again.

HoI1 used IC to fuel research, which is the incorrect approach IMO. The only thing I liked about HoI1 is that you could scale up your research by brute forcing IC, whereas it's quite difficult to scale your leadership up to further speed up research. That said you can accomplish focused speed increases by building things, so in a fashion it's quite similar, and more reflective of reality. Also because of the design of the HoI3 system you get much more free form results than in HoI1. Instead of picking a simple tank cannon for your tank and being stuck with it, you can actually make improvements over time, instead of simply researching 40mm+ tank gun and being stuck with it for the remainder of the game. It's a system that can work well into the future.