Why Change Can Be Bad-Common Sense

[Zardnaar]

Note that I have bought the latest patch so I do not expect to get stuff for free.

Righto now several months ago I watched a video from Paradox and they explained their goals for DLC. Back then the DLCs were for extra content that enhances the basic game but doesn't really remove thing.

Now there are a few negative things about the latest patch on the forums (there always is) but I can at least understand where they are coming from. On release there was a lot of exploits and it was really easy to expand. That is fine the game was also fun to play. Some things did need to be toned down.

However in the latest patch they moved the ability to develop your provinces via buildings and made it a DLC feature. They have actually removed something from the base game here and hid it behind a pay wall. Sure you can revert to a previous patch but then you can't get achievements. I have a few achievements none of the hard ones as I do not tend to aim for them just get them when I play for fun. However some of them are very difficult to get now world conquest for one. This in effect divides the community into the haves and have nots. I sometimes aim for an achievement if I am really really bored.

Now I do not mind if some players are better at the game than others but they may have got some of those achievements in earlier patches and newer players or players only recently deciding to play Ironman are cut off from the ability to get those achievements at least as easily as other people have.

I have also seen this in MMOs where earlier players are at a huge advantage due to having various things that were a lot easier to get in previous patches or where being one of the early adopters gives you a massive advantage and newer players struggle to compete and in some ways they will never catch up.

Now Early EUIV was a lot of fun if a bit crazy at times but people paid good money for a game that no longer exists. You still can technically play it of course but probably not in multi player and you can't get achievements. I do not mind DLC as such but sometimes I think basic features of a DLC should be available to everyone and the development feature I think should be one of them as they have removed that ability from the basic game that people paid money for. It is like Crusader Kings as I thought Sword of Islam for example should be part of the basic game the later DLCs not so much. In a game about the Crusades being able to play as the Muslims should be part of the base game IMHO of course.

And thats where I start getting frustrated DLC turns from extra content to milking the fanbase.

 

[Samat]

I was under the impression that building were in the free patch and only development was not? So not having the dlc is only constraining in the fact that you can't unlock more slot to build buildings.

 

[iShurik]

AFAIK (older) achievements work for older patches.

 

[FloatingOrb]

buildings are in free patch.

 

[salmanbabri]

You can build buildings even without the DLC. I don't get your point. Before the patch you couldn't spend monarch points to increase BT, now you can increase development (new version of BT) but that requires DLC. Nothing is taken away from you.

Regarding buildings the whole system is overhauled. With the DLC you might be able to spam development upgrades in a province for some crazy cost to make your dream city. Without the DLC you still have the option of conquering some decent sized province & build your buildings. There are about 4 slots in decent provinces but buildings are much more powerful now so you didn't really loose anything.

If you really want to go tall then yes you may need the DLC, but that's fine. It is a completely new feature, previously conquest was the only main way to expand your BT & most buildings were pretty pointless as well. Now there are few but meaningful buildings.

 

[Uglyr]

Since El Dorado I started to ask myself either I'm getting old, or Paradox got gold fever and losing it's grip. After the last patch I think it's more about fever.

 

[WeissRaben]

The full potential of building is paywalled. While the system has been reworked and is still there, it has been made quite weaker if you don't buy the DLC. I don't think there's actual malice in this, but it will give them a headache.

 

[IIWW]

I think for the first time there is realy big imballance in a game w/o DLC. The developement of provinces makes up (at least is supposed to)forabsurdly high coring cost. They changed the game, it was about conquest, now it's about going tall, with conquest being a side-dish. This makes the players without this DLC on a very disadvantageous position.

 

[WeissRaben]

I think for the first time there is realy big imballance in a game w/o DLC. The developement of provinces makes up (at least is supposed to)forabsurdly high coring cost. They changed the game, it was about conquest, now it's about going tall, with conquest being a side-dish. This makes the players without this DLC on a very disadvantageous position.

Conquest is still the best option, but there ARE two very different game styles, now. It reminds me of retinues - and they publicly admitted that had been an enormous headache for them, because they changed the whole game and they had to have the game work with and without.

 

[Morwys]

Ok, first of all, you should read this. I honestly had a hard time reading your post.

Second, I don't get all this outcry because the game just got harder. While WeissRaben is right, I didn't read many posters complaining about it - and they are right in doing so - the complaints seem to follow a "can't do WC anymore, can't have certain achievements anymore" that I simply cannot understand: you people want a WC to be easy, is that it?

 

[neondt]

In my experience so far, not being able to develop provinces would be far less of a handicap than not being able to set a national focus (also a DLC feature). Developing provinces is something you want to do only when you have plenty of monarch points to spare. If you never get near your MP cap, you're not missing out on much.

 

[grommile]

Since El Dorado I started to ask myself either I'm getting old, or Paradox got gold fever and losing it's grip. After the last patch I think it's more about fever.

Embrace the power of "neither".

 

[corbenic]

I think for the first time there is realy big imballance in a game w/o DLC. The developement of provinces makes up (at least is supposed to)forabsurdly high coring cost. They changed the game, it was about conquest, now it's about going tall, with conquest being a side-dish. This makes the players without this DLC on a very disadvantageous position.

I disagree, conquest has been curbed by increased cost but it is still desirable. Conquest and internal development are just supposed to be more balanced now.

What imbalance are you talking about? You play by the same rules as other players and AI, so what's the problem?
I don't get all this butthurt... why do you feel disadvantaged? People who paid for an expansion got more options in the game - that's normal, always has been.

 

[IIWW]

I disagree, conquest has been curbed by increased cost but it is still desirable. Conquest and internal development are just supposed to be more balanced now.

What imbalance are you talking about? You play by the same rules as other players and AI, so what's the problem?
I don't get all this butthurt... why do you feel disadvantaged? People who paid for an expansion got more options in the game - that's normal, always has been.

If they disable fabricating claims and gave an alternitve DLC exclusive still the AI and the player would be playing by the same rules.
They haven't took something off the game. They nerfed it extremly hard, and they gave the balancing feature behind a paywall.
(also, I don't feel disadvataged, since I have CS. It doesn't mean I agree with PDS policy).

 

[net.split]

Conquest is cheaper than internal development. You have to stack every available bonus and focus almost entirely on grassland / farmland provinces for any serious focus on development to be worthwhile -- and doing that is likely to weaken your conquest game (since you don't have the MPs available for coring / diplo-annexing).

CS permits internal development for making tall nations, but they're basically suboptimal as of this patch. It's a novelty feature, and I'm excited to have it, but it doesn't change the game in a notable manner.

 

[neondt]

Conquest is cheaper than internal development. You have to stack every available bonus and focus almost entirely on grassland / farmland provinces for any serious focus on development to be worthwhile -- and doing that is likely to weaken your conquest game (since you don't have the MPs available for coring / diplo-annexing).

CS permits internal development for making tall nations, but they're basically suboptimal as of this patch. It's a novelty feature, and I'm excited to have it, but it doesn't change the game in a notable manner.

This. Though it's a really nice option to have if 1) you happen to have plenty of a certain type of monarch point or 2) you just really, really want to make Ultra-Cornwall.

 

[corbenic]

Although, I can imagine the frustration of someone who didn't buy CS looking at their provinces with 9 or 19 development...

 

[hiimnotcrazy]

I was under the impression that building were in the free patch and only development was not? So not having the dlc is only constraining in the fact that you can't unlock more slot to build buildings.

Lacks DLC can confirm

You can build buildings even without the DLC. I don't get your point. Before the patch you couldn't spend monarch points to increase BT, now you can increase development (new version of BT) but that requires DLC. Nothing is taken away from you.

Regarding buildings the whole system is overhauled. With the DLC you might be able to spam development upgrades in a province for some crazy cost to make your dream city. Without the DLC you still have the option of conquering some decent sized province & build your buildings. There are about 4 slots in decent provinces but buildings are much more powerful now so you didn't really loose anything.

If you really want to go tall then yes you may need the DLC, but that's fine. It is a completely new feature, previously conquest was the only main way to expand your BT & most buildings were pretty pointless as well. Now there are few but meaningful buildings.

Remember pre-Common Sense I had unlimited buildings at 10 MP a building. Now I can only have up to 1-5 per province(depends on province) and I can never unlock more. WHY? Why can't I unlock more slots? I had unlimited, now its been put under a development barrier(MP cost really) which is fine.

What is not fine is the paywall of said development specifically when relating to buildings. I am perfectly fine having development as a paid feature, yes it is new. Buildings are not new and have been a feature since day 1. DAY 1. Now I have an arbitrary wall I can only tear down if I have the DLC. That is by definition a paywall.

 

[neondt]

Remember pre-Common Sense I had unlimited buildings at 10 MP a building. Now I can only have up to 1-5 per province(depends on province) and I can never unlock more. WHY? Why can't I unlock more slots? I had unlimited, now its been put under a development barrier(MP cost really) which is fine.

What is not fine is the paywall of said development specifically when relating to buildings. I am perfectly fine having development as a paid feature, yes it is new. Buildings are not new and have been a feature since day 1. DAY 1. Now I have an arbitrary wall I can only tear down if I have the DLC. That is by definition a paywall.

You generally need to add so much development to a province to get a new building slot (each slot unlocks at 10 development levels after the first. Each point of development costs somewhere in the range of 50-100mp initially, and it only gets higher.) that it's not even remotely worth it to do that. The cases where you do want to add development for the sake of buildings are in provinces like Firenze which are 1-2 development away from having a new slot. I can understand why this might be irritating if you don't have the dlc, but understand that is is a minority of circumstances, and 1 building is not likely to be game-changing.

People are vastly overstating the difference that increasing development makes.

 

[hiimnotcrazy]

You generally need to add so much development to a province to get a new building slot (each slot unlocks at 10 development levels after the first. Each point of development costs somewhere in the range of 50-100mp initially, and it only gets higher.) that it's not even remotely worth it to do that. The cases where you do want to add development for the sake of buildings are in provinces like Firenze which are 1-2 development away from having a new slot. I can understand why this might be irritating if you don't have the dlc, but understand that is is a minority of circumstances, and 1 building is not likely to be game-changing.

People are vastly overstating the difference that increasing development makes.

But, the idea that I can't build ANY buildings past my base development is irritating. ESPECIALLY with the redone building system