Why can't you assassinate people in your own country?

[Dusk313]

This was said in the Egypt stream, is this for real? People back then plot to kill any political adversary, even family members. This game is revealing itself to be too clean, we can't backstab our allies by refusing their call to arms, we can't murder people in our own realm...

CK2, if I recall once had this obligatory call to arms but it was widely criticized adn they revert it, and then we had a huge penality in prestige and opinion in becoming a truce breaker and an alliance breaker. Why can't we have this things in Imperator also?

And in CK2 we cannot murder our own children, but everyone else, if falling in diplomatic rage, we can plot their assassination.

 

[Nyrael]

In CK2, you play with a person. In Imperator you play with state.
NPCs will most definitely assassinate one another though. Even in first game characters did a lot of power playing between one another.

 

[MohawkWolfo98]

In CK2, you play with a person. In Imperator you play with state.
NPCs will most definitely assassinate one another though. Even in first game characters did a lot of power playing between one another.

I’m not a history expert, but I’m pretty sure that the state assassinated many of its own citizens. Think Tiberius and Gaius Gracchus.

It seems like such a weird gameplay decision, I don’t even understand

 

[Thure]

I’m not a history expert, but I’m pretty sure that the state assassinated many of its own citizens. Think Tiberius and Gaius Gracchus.

It seems like such a weird gameplay decision, I don’t even understand

This aren't really assassinations by the state.

 

[Andrzej2]

My guess is that don't want to bother with balancing assasinations so they disallowed them in internal affairs becouse otherwise player would just kill every disloyal general.

Especially that assasinations just require military power. As it is now they are so easy to do that in on one of the gameplays guy just killed every general in enemy army during a battle!

 

[guillec87]

Ciceron assasination was a State affair, since Augustus was the State...

and I agree that I could simply ignore an allies call to arms... Rome did it when she could not, nor would win nothing from a particular war

 

[Will Steel]

While I agree that we don't play a proper dynastic character in this game, you are still playing the current ruler. Anything you do does count as the ruler doing something. Any policy you make, is the ruler's policy. This is especially true in monarchies.

So if you assassinate someone, it counts as your ruler ordering it.

I think this feature should be enabled and kept in the game. Make it harder, base it on stats, restrict it for ruler's immediate family, make it AI-abuse proof, and have a big cooldown...but still keep it in the game. It will be crucial to prevent certain things.

It is a basic feature that shouldn't be left out.

This aren't really assassinations by the state.

Proscriptions were.

They were literally state-authorized, Senate approved, "legalized" mass-murders and assassinations of whoever got on the wrong side of Marius/Sulla/later Triumvirs (or when they needed money). A staggering amount of people were killed and exiled.

 

[MohawkWolfo98]

My guess is that don't want to bother with balancing assasinations so they disallowed them in internal affairs becouse otherwise player would just kill every disloyal general.

Especially that assasinations just require military power. As it is now they are so easy to do that in on one of the gameplays guy just killed every general in enemy army during a battle!

I get what u mean by that, but the solution could be imposing a lot of tyranny points/event chains for assassinating people in ur own realm, not disabling it outright.

But i am not even sure if this is actually a thing tho, I thought Johan was being sarcastic in the stream. Hoping we can get one of the devs to settle this

 

[Denkt]

Probably because you are ment to use imprisonment. Having 2 options may be hard to balance.

 

[Will Steel]

Now it makes me wish we had elected Praetors who acted as judges (via events or otherwise), so that there was a crime and court justice system which decided the fate of imprisoned characters in republics.

 

[Te. Kenzo]

It's a difficult thing to balance, because without assassination the game it's not realistic and it's ignoring a diffused "political practice", but with assassination it is still "assassination in a game smashing a button" and even with maluses often it's too gamey and unrealistic, with you cutting not favoured heirs like leafs.

On a side note a think that in future, and talking specifically about Rome, an assassination mechanic linked to the concept of Sacertas and Sanctitas could be cool.

 

[apg]

I reckon that Johan misspoke on the stream and meant to say " you cant assassinate people of your same family".

 

[Johan]

Why assassinate if you can just imprison and execute?

 

[apg]

Why assassinate if you can just imprison and execute?

Political Ramifications! I.e. Tyranny in this game setting I suppose.

 

[cristofolmc]

Why assassinate if you can just imprison and execute?

Immerssion, fun, you know that kind of thing people like.

Can you imagine CK2 devs going why assassinate when you can imprison and execute? Imprison is a public act. Assassinate is part of the cool intrigue of roman time. Heck its even advertised in the announcement trailer. You may want to risk being discovered if you can assassinate and nobody finds out. While imprison and execute there is a much higer chance but its a public act people know youre responsible for it and increases your tyranny a lot higher. I dont know. Its taking away fun bits of the game from feature you dont even have to create, they are already there, why lock them?

 

[Will Steel]

Why assassinate if you can just imprison and execute?

Because it could turn the people against you.

Assassination is a tool when you don't want to be found out. Julius Caesar could've easily imprisoned and executed at whim a lot of people he offed (like his great grandson Augustus did), but he chose to silently assassinate and deal with them to keep his popularity (and political sanctity) up and avoid creating problems.

Besides it is immersive, and realistic and forms a big part of what was being done at that time.

Ruler assassination should be a way to kill people without generating tyranny.

 

[cristofolmc]

Ruler assassination should be a way to kill people without generating tyranny

Exsctly! And if you get cought you get a big hit on most characters loyalty and also a big turanny gain. Thats the fun sbout it. You weigh the risk risk of being cought against the benefit of removing someone without nobody knowing and getting away with it. Or you can go for the secure outcome, imprison, but with not such a big tyranny gain and loyalty and pooularity hit.

 

[Dusk313]

Also, assassination shouldn't be just a button to play with a money cost to imediately kill someone, this was even how things works in the earlier days of CK2, but now we have to invite people to plot killing someone, which made things more realistic. And if I recall correctly, in the screenshots and streams of Imperator assassinate someone is not just a button but a plan or plot.

And lastly, Julius Caesar was himself a victim of a plot by his countrymen, assassinated by his fellow Romans in Rome. He was not just imprisoned and executed...

 

[Sanny]

And pretty sure Julius Caesar had a list of Roman nobles (inc. senators) whom he wanted "taking care of", when he returned to Rome after the Civil War. I remember reading about it.

 

[cristofolmc]

And pretty sure Julius Caesar had a list of Roman nobles (inc. senators) whom he wanted "taking care of", when he returned to Rome after the Civil War. I remember reading about it.

So did Octavius. In fact, imprisonment was very uncommon in rome. It was either death, banishment, or assassination in secret. So the one I'd remove from the game is imprisonment, and add banishment, although I think its already in. But assassination obviously has to be in. Heck its one of the sides of the game shown and featured in the announcement trailer. A patrician or senator coming from the back of a column to assassinate a rival.