Why can't vassals understand what most important?

[yerm]

Internal conflicts requires 2 stability and <1 unrest. They can't get out of this unless they buy up to 2 stability, which I suspect is something maybe Wiz you could look at? I don't think it's just vassals either, mind you, but even independent AI seem to be stuck in internal conflicts a bit longer than I think they should, and perhaps prioritizing disaster-ending choices could be looked into.

As an overlord, if your vassal has this disaster, just don't feed them. Why would you? I mean really, what are you thinking? The land they're given will come with unrest, the overextension will increase coring costs, the coring itself takes stab-raising admin points... you're just piling more problems on. Yeah, as I said, the AI probably needs a look at getting out of this disaster better, but frankly if you're shoving unrest-laden admin-taxing provinces onto a vassal with internal problems, you deserve what happens.

 

[Frederick_Will]

Even if they have -3 stab?

Stability will cost a lot to raise if they have a lot of overextension. They would be better off coring before raising stability. Getting to that +2 stab is a lot of admin points. Wasting hundreds more on a possible rare resource isn't the best idea imo.

 

[Violent AI]

AI always spends ADM on coring before basically anything else. They probably just don't have the ADM to spend.

Do they also set national focus to admin in such situations? Can we have a national focus vassal interaction, that allows us to change their national focus at expense of LD, if they are either lagging in military tech or need to core more

 

[yerm]

Do they also set national focus to admin in such situations? Can we have a national focus vassal interaction, that allows us to change their national focus at expense of LD, if they are either lagging in military tech or need to core more

Seems like a good idea to me. Set admin focus if stuck in low stability and/or overextension for X time, maybe set dip or mil under certain conditions (zeroed points from annexing = dip, threatened by neighbor with 2+ tech lead = mil, etc).

 

[Wizzington]

Even if they have -3 stab?

The priority goes like:

1) If >25% OE, core
2) If <0 stab, get stab
3) If any non cores, core

It should not be possible for AI to prioritize teching etc over coring, and if you've seen this happen I would like a reproducible case with save so I can fix it.

 

[Wizzington]

Do they also set national focus to admin in such situations? Can we have a national focus vassal interaction, that allows us to change their national focus at expense of LD, if they are either lagging in military tech or need to core more

Having lots of OE makes AI more likely to pick adm focus, but it's not guaranteed.

 

[yerm]

The priority goes like:

1) If >25% OE, core
2) If <0 stab, get stab
3) If any non cores, core

It should not be possible for AI to prioritize teching etc over coring, and if you've seen this happen I would like a reproducible case with save so I can fix it.

Are there any special priorities, eg for this disaster, where the AI will buy up to 2 stab as a priority?

It may be wild confirmation bias but it just doesn't appear to me that the AI makes getting that 2 stab as important as I do. It could be unrest and I'm wrong, but I just obviously don't know. Do they buy up to 2 when in internal problems over, say, tech and ideas?

 

[Violent AI]

The priority goes like:

1) If >25% OE, core
2) If <0 stab, get stab
3) If any non cores, core

It should not be possible for AI to prioritize teching etc over coring, and if you've seen this happen I would like a reproducible case with save so I can fix it.

A little offtopic, but AI does not know when to prioritize teching over filling ideas. Especially the military ones. I tend to fight strong nations (like Ottomans) when having a mil tech advantage over them (which gives new units/mil tactics). I've seen them fill out Offensive ideas instead of getting tech that would give them new units/tactics while they are losing the war.
Also, AI does not upgrade unit types while at war, even if it techs up. And they still wait for the 100 extra military points buffer before teching/filling idea, while losing the war.

 

[Golladan]

The priority goes like:

1) If >25% OE, core
2) If <0 stab, get stab
3) If any non cores, core

It should not be possible for AI to prioritize teching etc over coring, and if you've seen this happen I would like a reproducible case with save so I can fix it.

Thanks @Wiz. Stuff like this is very helpful to know for the modding community.

 

[londoner247]

I have noticed that if the AI is coring a province and rebels occupy it that the coring progress has reset when the province is liberated. Whether this is because the AI is still coded to cancel coring before a siege completes or a bug I don't know and I don't have a save game to show this at the moment.

However, if they are cancelling coring (and not getting a full refund) then this may exacerbate problems when dealing with high OE.

 

[Metz]

We should have different levels of vassals:

Level 1: Tributary State. Pays money to keep sovereignty. No military obligations.
Level 2: Vassal. Regular vassal, pays tribute (may be lower than a tributary state) and has military obligations.
Level 3: Personal Union. Long-term vassal, overlord ruler can obtain throne. Annexation is easier and cheaper.


For levels 2 and 3 we should be able to have a screen where we tell them to focus on either: economy, military buildup, improve your diplomatic relations abroad, or balanced. We should also be able to offer to build things in our colonies and vassals provinces in exchange for good relations and lowered liberty desire.


We should also be able to build forts which we (the overlords) control in our colonies, which push down liberty desire. Fort Ticonderoga anybody?

 

[Chlodio]

Level 3: Personal Union. Long-term vassal, overlord ruler can obtain throne. Annexation is easier and cheaper.

How would vassal become PU partner? I think PU should remain as they're, but when union is integrated junior partner's status is changed to a real union which makes the union unbreakable instead becoming direct part of senior partner.

 

[AurochsAway]

We should have different levels of vassals:

Level 1: Tributary State. Pays money to keep sovereignty. No military obligations.
Level 2: Vassal. Regular vassal, pays tribute (may be lower than a tributary state) and has military obligations.
Level 3: Personal Union. Long-term vassal, overlord ruler can obtain throne. Annexation is easier and cheaper.


For levels 2 and 3 we should be able to have a screen where we tell them to focus on either: economy, military buildup, improve your diplomatic relations abroad, or balanced. We should also be able to offer to build things in our colonies and vassals provinces in exchange for good relations and lowered liberty desire.


We should also be able to build forts which we (the overlords) control in our colonies, which push down liberty desire. Fort Ticonderoga anybody?

This is already in game. Level 1 is possible by enabling scutage on a vassal.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The priority goes like:

1) If >25% OE, core
2) If <0 stab, get stab
3) If any non cores, core

It should not be possible for AI to prioritize teching etc over coring, and if you've seen this happen I would like a reproducible case with save so I can fix it.

I found saves with evidence of >20 years of non-cores, but it's far enough past that point where they've righted the ship. You can still see it in the province history (becomes core 20-30 years later on sub-100% OE), but it's a pain to reproduce since it depends on factors I don't know. The most typical scenario involves internal conflicts (generally from lots of wrong religion). Obviously bankruptcy doesn't count since that floors monarch points but vassal bankruptcy is pretty rare.

If I can grab a save at the point of the problem, I'll post it.

 

[delpiero1234]

I have noticed that if the AI is coring a province and rebels occupy it that the coring progress has reset when the province is liberated. Whether this is because the AI is still coded to cancel coring before a siege completes or a bug I don't know and I don't have a save game to show this at the moment.

However, if they are cancelling coring (and not getting a full refund) then this may exacerbate problems when dealing with high OE.

I can confirm this happening and I am very sure that the AI does not get the full ADM back when it cancels it because after province is liberated it rarely starts immediately coring it again.

 

[Metz]

This is already in game. Level 1 is possible by enabling scutage on a vassal.

SCUTAGE is not the same thing. Scutage is a vassal paying to avoid military service. A tributary state pays money in exchange for sovereignty (extortion in a way).

 

[Metz]

How would vassal become PU partner? I think PU should remain as they're, but when union is integrated junior partner's status is changed to a real union which makes the union unbreakable instead becoming direct part of senior partner.

By forcing them to give you the throne after X amount of years.

 

[doktorstick]

SCUTAGE is not the same thing. Scutage is a vassal paying to avoid military service. A tributary state pays money in exchange for sovereignty (extortion in a way).

What matters is gameplay. Does their sovereignty imply there's a truce? An alliance? What is their obligation? Can they be called into wars? Can they refuse? What's the penalty of them refusing?

A one-liner about their sovereignty doesn't tell us anything.

 

[Chaos_TLW]

SCUTAGE is not the same thing. Scutage is a vassal paying to avoid military service. A tributary state pays money in exchange for sovereignty (extortion in a way).

Can you explain what, exactly, would be the difference, for gameplay purposes? I can't see a lot, at least not with the way they currently work.

 

[Tiax]

The priority goes like:

1) If >25% OE, core
2) If <0 stab, get stab
3) If any non cores, core

It should not be possible for AI to prioritize teching etc over coring, and if you've seen this happen I would like a reproducible case with save so I can fix it.

This behavior could be pretty confusing and frustrating for someone who doesn't know what the underlying rule is. Imagine you give your vassal some territory, putting them at 20% OE, and you want them to core it. Instead they appear to be saving their adm mana for something else (which turns out to be improving stability). You might think that you need to let fix their stability problems before giving them more stuff to core, but it turns out that what you should do is give them another province or two, and then they'll start coring right away.

It would be nice if these behaviors were clearly documented somewhere instead of being revealed piecemeal in forum threads that will be lost to the depths of the 'next page' buton.