Why can't vassals understand what most important?

Pengu77 · Oct 21, 2015

Ok, so sometimes you feed your vassals land in a peacedeal. And sometimes you feed you vassals alot of land making them very overextended. BUT, what is the 1st thing you do if you have a lot of land that isn't cored????
YOU CORE IT!!!
And do my vassals pull out all stops to core the lands?
Try 1 province every other year. So instead of prioritising coring the land they get internal conflict, rebel sentiment, -3 stability making the unrest even higher. So then I have to police the morons for years killing hundreds of thousand rebels, while they slowly core one province at a time...
I would like to tell my vassals, there is only one thing you should focus on, CORE THE LAND!

grommile · Oct 21, 2015

There are an assortment of failure modes at work.

Most of them are AI issues. One of them is in your expectations; your vassals are not guaranteed to have a conveniently full admin pool when you feed them.

Zelius · Oct 21, 2015

I find my vassals will refuse to core provinces with high revolt risk. High WE and intolerance particularly tend to slow mine down.

bbqftw · Oct 21, 2015

I like how they prioritize raising stab over coring during internal conflicts, and then take the most moronic event choices (yeah sure, take the +unrest event choice over the -unrest when getting out of the disaster is contingent on having low unrest).

MewtwoHidden · Oct 21, 2015

What if you got to see how much admin/dip/mil your subjects have? That way, if your subject doesn't have much admin you would know not to give them much land. You could even make it a subject interaction, costing a xx% of liberty desire and a certain amount of negative opinion malus for invading the privacy of their nation.

Alternatively, you could allow us to core vassal territory directly in exchange for a small opinion boost or to make a subject interaction for "donating" monarch points for an opinion boost and lowering liberty desire..

IdiotsOpposite · Oct 21, 2015

MewtwoHidden said:
Alternatively, you could allow us to core vassal territory directly in exchange for a small opinion boost or to make a subject interaction for "donating" monarch points for an opinion boost and lowering liberty desire..

Which rather defeats the entire point of vassal feeding in the first place.

Zelius · Oct 21, 2015

MewtwoHidden said:
Alternatively, you could allow us to core vassal territory directly in exchange for a small opinion boost or to make a subject interaction for "donating" monarch points for an opinion boost and lowering liberty desire..

You kind of can: Core it yourself and then sell it to your vassal, if you can take the OE.

Pengu77 · Oct 21, 2015

It's just insane that I have to fight around 2000000 rebels in 1.5 year when my vassal can house around 50000 soldiers himself.
Not to mention how is it possible for 1 vassal to spawn millions upon million of rebels! just in couple of years. How unrealistic can it get? I mean the country itself might have that population.....
Not to mention how much it ruins the game.
So when my vassal has 7-8 provinces to core it choose to core 1, which I have to babysit for him(as your vassal for some reason will abort coring if rebels spawn)
And then spend adm to go from -3 to -2 stability....
???

Pengu77 · Oct 21, 2015

I can't even buy the provinces from him or make him give it back

atwix · Oct 21, 2015

don't feed your vassal over 100%. You can check/calculate this by looking at any province they haven and hovering over the revolt risk.

Their overextension is listed there from a scale from 0,00 to 5,00. Multiply this value by 20, and thats how much % overextenson they have.

You can reliably feed vassals up to 9x% overextension this way. Administrative efficiency differences between overlord and subjects can screw this math up though.

A religious hindu vassal never EVER got rebels if I fed them same religion land up to 9%x overextension. Try to feed your vassals provinces of same culture group, and same religion.

gall · Oct 21, 2015

Pengu77 said:
It's just insane that I have to fight around 2000000 rebels in 1.5 year when my vassal can house around 50000 soldiers himself.
Not to mention how is it possible for 1 vassal to spawn millions upon million of rebels! just in couple of years. How unrealistic can it get? I mean the country itself might have that population.....
Not to mention how much it ruins the game.
So when my vassal has 7-8 provinces to core it choose to core 1, which I have to babysit for him(as your vassal for some reason will abort coring if rebels spawn)
And then spend adm to go from -3 to -2 stability....
???

Try to load as them, then measure how much time it would take for you to get out from situation beyond AI capabilities. Or just start new game, get 20 WE (easy as vassal, you are small, bordering enemy, give away half of your income, don't get +2 income from being independent nation) and then take 200% OE without planning to take even one province (i.e. teching and getting ideas, stability as normal) then core this lands in time you would expect vassal to do it

. No doubt you will do it faster than AI, but you will get habit to double checking OE for vassal and their stab/WE (WE is increasing coring cost). Ai is tiring not to give away precious ADM points on provinces, which will go back to former own eventually do to revolts.
This is unrealistic they didn't give back this provinces or collapse immediately..
It would be interesting to get feature "overlord intervention" for +25% LD and some prestige or dip reputation penalty to get ability to switch tags for say a year (diplomatic window blocked, not annexing currently) on pause even on Iron-men.

bbqftw · Oct 21, 2015

"hey should I buy that extra stab to get out of internal conflicts or should I buy an admin tech"

"i will buy the admin tech to troll my overlord"

thanks paradox

happymix91 · Oct 21, 2015

Wiz said that Ais prioritize coring first when they have more 25% OE. So if they don't core with enough adm points, it is a bug. They may do something for it at 1.14.

bbqftw · Oct 21, 2015

definitely not in this patch - I will routinely see AIs stab up to zero before coring while in internal conflicts. bizarrely, they also prioritize tech over getting +2 stab while in the internal conflicts disaster.

I used to do things in pre-CS like overfeed horde vassals to 150%+ overextension - AIs did prioritize coring in those patches but its clearly not happening here.

Pengu77 · Oct 21, 2015

Which is insane.... as nothing will solve overextention besides coring considering how punishing the game is towards overextention.

Imgran · Oct 21, 2015

IdiotsOpposite said:
Which rather defeats the entire point of vassal feeding in the first place.

...but could definitely be useful in a few niche cases.

TheMeInTeam · Oct 21, 2015

bbqftw said:
definitely not in this patch - I will routinely see AIs stab up to zero before coring while in internal conflicts. bizarrely, they also prioritize tech over getting +2 stab while in the internal conflicts disaster.

I used to do things in pre-CS like overfeed horde vassals to 150%+ overextension - AIs did prioritize coring in those patches but its clearly not happening here.

Internal conflicts seems the culprit. I almost never see this refusal to core unless I'm feeding the vassal wrong-religion stuff w/o humanist, but when they get internal conflicts you just lost a relation slot for 50 years.

Of course, this particular buggy nerf bat hits the non-Abrahamic faiths more, since those are the ones that care about annexing large chunks of wrong-religion stuff even with religious ideas :/. The "exploits" that let you avoid paying some DIP cost as ROTW with humanist are actually weaker than just playing an Abrahamic faith with religious + holy cities and converting it all straight up.

Wizzington · Oct 21, 2015

AI always spends ADM on coring before basically anything else. They probably just don't have the ADM to spend.

VoodooEconomist · Oct 21, 2015

I bet they also think that the open steppe, fleet horse, falcon on your wrist and wind in your hair are most important. Everybody knows it's to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women!

Thanks paradox...

MaReDioa · Oct 21, 2015

Wiz said:
AI always spends ADM on coring before basically anything else. They probably just don't have the ADM to spend.

Even if they have -3 stab?

Why can't vassals understand what most important?

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