Why can't I invade the HRE?

[Fishy101]

So my emperor from 2 generations ago married his son to the Duchess of Dauphin who also happens to be a princess of the HRE with a claim. So then next generation takes over. The union produced 2 sons and 2 daughters. I couldn't control who tutors my children. I couldn't even control who my heir marries. My son hates me because he is ambitious and is a claimant. So I assassinated my wife which finally gets my heir to come to me. I am from Castille culture. My second son is German culture and had to be invited to join my court. Good thing my heir who has crappy traits and stats is at least Castillian. So then I give him the Duchy all the heirs get and he is happy for a while, until he forgot who gave him a duchy and decided he wants to kill me to claim my throne. My emperor lives a long time. He dies (assassinated with poison) and I tried to use the Invasion CB against HRE. I meet all the requirements but the Pope will not accept my offer. I am totally flabbergasted. My previous emperor had installed this pope and my current emperor still has a +75 bonus to opinion from that. So the pope's opinion of my current emperor is 100. I have no idea what his opinion of the Kaiser is so I assassinated the Kaiser. Still won't let me Invade. After so much effort and it comes down to Pope won't agree with it.

Has anyone done this before? Do I have to install a new antipope? Or is the Invasion CB unusable on the HRE? Cause that just took all the fun out of my current game.

 

[dorukdorucu]

As i pointed out before in some other thread, having +100 opinon of pope only gives + or ++ after balancing out the base reluctance. So you either need the pope's opinion of the Kaiser below 0, or in the 10-20 area for him to grant you the invasion. Check it out on a regular basis to be sure. Since you keep the invasion cb only during your reign(or your targets reign) better be quick and do it before either of you get 50-60 years old etc.
Side note: Do you have more realm holdings than the HRE? If not, then you don't need to worry about having a claim or not. Unless they get eaten up by revolts, you will be fine.

 

[yezhanquan]

Basically, if the Pope likes the Kaiser at about +40 and above, you can't convince him to let you have the invasion. Best that it's at negative.

 

[Fishy101]

Side note: Do you have more realm holdings than the HRE? If not, then you don't need to worry about having a claim or not. Unless they get eaten up by revolts, you will be fine.

Any chance you are talking about my demesne size? My empire is definitely bigger than the HRE. If its desmesne size I will just give away my counties.

 

[yezhanquan]

Any chance you are talking about my demesne size? My empire is definitely bigger than the HRE.

No, your realm size. Asking the Pope for an invasion requires that you be smaller than your target.

 

[Fishy101]

Basically, if the Pope likes the Kaiser at about +40 and above, you can't convince him to let you have the invasion. Best that it's at negative.

How do I lower the Pope's opinion? And how do I check the pope's opinion of the Kaiser or any other character for that matter?

 

[yezhanquan]

How do I lower the Pope's opinion? And how do I check the pope's opinion of the Kaiser or any other character for that matter?

I don't think you can do that. A third character can't influence the relationship between two characters. The Kaiser would have to somehow piss the Pope off himself.

 

[Fishy101]

No, your realm size. Asking the Pope for an invasion requires that you be smaller than your target.

Unfortunately, my empire is a lot bigger. I took most of the coastal counties along the Mediterranean from the Islamic nations through holy wars. That's why I planned so long for an invasion. I even stopped expanding in anticipation of the invasion and let HRE/Golden Horde take land that I could have taken because they would have been difficult to defend in a war with HRE. It's kinda funny because Poland now has a Jimena ruler. I wasn't paying attention but I assume its because my claimant inherited the kingdom through luck. It currently has only 1 county though. The rest got split up between the HRE and the Horde.

I am wondering if it is possible for me to become smaller than the HRE by allowing my vassals to go independent when stick me with independence faction ultimatum.

 

[masteriw]

You can get an invasion granted with a bigger realm if you have a claim on the HRE.

 

[Fishy101]

I don't think you can do that. A third character can't influence the relationship between two characters. The Kaiser would have to somehow piss the Pope off himself.

Darn! I don't suppose I can get him excommunicated?

 

[Fishy101]

You can get an invasion granted with a bigger realm if you have a claim on the HRE.

I have a claim on HRE. It's why I had to spend so many years setting up for this invasion. I had my heir betrothed to the Duchess/Princess. I didn't realize that my heir wouldn't have been able to inherit the Duchy of Dauphin due to crown authority. Had I known I wasn't going to inherit and that it would be that much trouble having a landed wife, I would have just married an unlanded HRE princess.

 

[yezhanquan]

Darn! I don't suppose I can get him excommunicated?

If the Pope already likes him quite a bit, nope. Getting someone excommunicated is like dropping a huge rock on someone who's fallen into a well, making it harder for him to recover.