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gnashar

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Hi all,

Since the new patch, I am a lot less bothered by seduction - it's not quite as rampant as it used to be. However, I've come across a scenario where my daughter has been seduced by one of my dukes. She's also my heir, and is now pregnant with (I assume) his baby. She's got the dreaded adulteress malus, and everyone knows that the dirty duke is her lover.

I'd really like to arrest him and chop off his head, but apparently everyone would hate me if I did that. Because apparently I'm the one in the wrong here. My character doesn't even have a negative opinion of him, in spite of me getting notified that the two of them were up to no good.

Is this working as intended or is it a bug? I'm happy to methodically eradicate him and his dynasty with plots, but I'd prefer to get my revenge in a more instantaneous and satisfactory fashion.

Thanks

ck2_5.png
 
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Metz

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I think something that is missing from CK2 is how morally religious a state is. Some realms should be more willing to allow the beheading of an adulteress/adulterer (especially Muslim realms) while others wouldn't care. Perhaps under realm laws we are missing "Religious Morality" (it should be hard to switch).
 
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gnashar

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I think something that is missing from CK2 is how morally religious a state is. Some realms should be more willing to allow the beheading of an adulteress/adulterer (especially Muslim realms) while others wouldn't care. Perhaps under realm laws we are missing "Religious Morality" (it should be hard to switch).

While I agree with that, are there many situations in the middle ages where a king would find out that one of his subordinates had impregnated his daughter, and just gone "oh well"? I agree that certain realms could be more tolerant than others, and I think that'd be a cool feature, but in this case I can't imagine such a scenario panning out well for either of them. His wife hates her, and her husband hates him. And yet I, who have a vested interest in her as my heir, can do nothing.

Update: the duke just died in a manure explosion, and I feel a little better.
 
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francis_morin

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Sleeping with your liege's wife or daughters out of wedlock should be cause for imprisonment and title revocation/execution if they catch you, and it should be entirely possible that failed targets with traits like Honest will rat you out.
You can already arrest seducers if you caught them though, either directly or indirectly, with your wife, that's for sure, and it happens a lot. I even revoke more than a few titles that way.I think you can also do it with the seducers of your children, I think it happens to me once.

So, frankly, I don't get it when people keep saying you cannot. You can. You cannot every single time and it is fair with me in that regard.

However, there are things that could be slightly altered to be better. For one, I agree with everybody here who is saying that there should be some kind of soft cap on the number of attempts. It could be linked with Traits of the character being seduced, to reflect the nature of the character in question and how much he or she can find it annoying or flattering. Some like to flirt and be seduced, other don't like it so much. It could be linked with Traits. In the first scenario, of loving to be seduced, Traits like Poet, Game Master, Hedonist, Socializer, Gardener, Lustful, Proud, Envious, Brave - if married -, Diligent, Master Seducer, Cynical, Trusting, Patient, Deceitful, Gregarious, could go toward among their respective attributes to improve the number of attempts a character will more easily accept and find acceptable. Going over the threshold should nevertheless trigger an important negative modifier rendering virtually impossible to seduce the target, something a kind to Upset, which should grow if the seducer keep going at it. In the case of the player, when the threshold is met, it should be deactivated entirely, to avoid to be annoyed further. Especially when you try to keep an empire together. In the second scenario, of being annoyed to be seduced, Traits like Chaste, Honest - if married -, Zealous, Wroth, Theologian, Celibate, Temperate, Craven - if married -,Shy, Content, Arbitrary, Paranoid, Just - if married -.

Cruel, Master Schemer, Master Seducer, Impaler, Ambitious, and maybe a few others of which I don't think of should trigger a new event, which is framing the seducer or any character with the Seduction focus. Either a spouse event or a character event, the idea is to be able to create false claims of seduction and to be able to act accordingly. If I am not mistaken, the imprisonment is only available if the seducer do something with the spouse or your children right now. It could be very interesting to see such an event, which will reflect the nature of the seduction focus in the first place. Of course, the event should not trigger for people with good Traits like Just. If it should trigger, it should come with a reasonable chance of getting a bad trait.

That's my two cents anyway.

P.S. : Moreover, now that I think of it, there should be another event triggering if your wife or spouse has lover's pox.It is funny that my character will not notice it one bit and investigate. Thus, there should be a chance to get an event which will lead to investigate further, to follow your wife or whatnot, akin to the one we have currently about babes, when you spend a few coins, then twenty, to know the truth about the father of the child. It could also grant a free divorce since you will have true proofs of adultery. Not only imprisonment.

P.S. 2 : There should be also a negative modifier to your daughters if they are not virgin before marriage- that she has had a babe out of wedlock. Especially when it comes to marry off those daughters for alliances afterwards.

P.S. 3 : I had already post the same message a while ago, but I figure it is still of actuality.
 
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gnashar

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You can already arrest seducers if you caught them though, either directly or indirectly, with your wife, that's for sure, and it happens a lot. I even revoke more than a few titles that way.I think you can also do it with the seducers of your children, I think it happens to me once.

So, frankly, I don't get it when people keep saying you cannot. You can. You cannot every single time and it is fair with me in that regard.

Agreed about sleeping with a spouse - I've been able to arrest both the seducer and the spouse in that instance. But as per my screenshot above, not with the seducer of a child. Are there certain exceptions where you are able to do this?

For one, I agree with everybody here who is saying that there should be some kind of soft cap on the number of attempts.

Apologies if I've misunderstood, but I believe there is a cap since the new patch. If a seducer fails to seduce someone the first time they try (which I assume is based on traits), they are then unable to try again for a number of years. I think it works quite well, certainly in my game at least - seduction is present but not everyone has lovers pox and a bastard child by the time they're 17. While seduction used to bother me - such as the time I saw a particularly randy Ecumenical Patriarch with a court size of 400, of which 390 courtiers were bastards - I now quite like it.
 
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francis_morin

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Agreed about sleeping with a spouse - I've been able to arrest both the seducer and the spouse in that instance. But as per my screenshot above, not with the seducer of a child. Are there certain exceptions where you are able to do this?



Apologies if I've misunderstood, but I believe there is a cap since the new patch. If a seducer fails to seduce someone the first time they try (which I assume is based on traits), they are then unable to try again for a number of years. I think it works quite well, certainly in my game at least - seduction is present but not everyone has lovers pox and a bastard child by the time they're 17. While seduction used to bother me - such as the time I saw a particularly randy Ecumenical Patriarch with a court size of 400, of which 390 courtiers were bastards - I now quite like it.

Like I wrote, I think it has happened once with a daughter of mine in game. I could still be wrong on that front like I was mentioning in the above message, but I am quite sure of my shot. I had quite a high Intrigue skill, both for the character and the state. It might have played a role in some way. I might have received the opportunity of imprisonnement for something else I did not notice. In any case, we both agree it should be in the game if it is not.

Besides, you did not misunderstand me. I just copy/paste my old message of an earlier, similar, thread. Some of which is at present outdated, which is a good thing actually ! The recent modifications help a long way to improve the focus. So, please, do not mind too much if some of it is not up to date. I still think some of it is still relevant, hence the copy/paste.
 
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francis_morin

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In a related question: how can I ransom dynasty members from someone? I've searched everywhere, but it looks like it's not possible?

It has been a while since I play last, but I recall you cannot in the sense you have to wait for them to propose to pay the price of ransom. I might be wrong here, but it seems like it. You might get an event proposing to arrange something though, a bit like when you are yourself imprisonned, but it is still random. So, yeah, I do not think there is a power button for ransoms.
 

mrinku

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P.S. 2 : There should be also a negative modifier to your daughters if they are not virgin before marriage- that she has had a babe out of wedlock. Especially when it comes to marry off those daughters for alliances afterwards.

There is one for having a child out of wedlock. Good luck in proving she wasn't a virgin if she doesn't have a kid, though.

@Marginal0

IIRC, you have to be a character's liege to ransom - vassals and courtiers - and it's just a matter of right clicking on the prisoner's portrait. If you don't have the cash the option doesn't appear. Fairly certain you can't ransom the courtiers of a vassal either, since that's their responsibility. Dynasty members who are outside your chain of responsibility have to be sprung by their actual boss or regent.

There may be more options using the Intrigue focus for jailbreaks, but I have a suspicion the valid targets are the same.
 
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StarSword

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I do agree there should be mechanics to be an—I'm gonna go with—overprotective parent. Would be historical, and would be funny. Best possible combination.
 
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Azarias59

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I think something that is missing from CK2 is how morally religious a state is. Some realms should be more willing to allow the beheading of an adulteress/adulterer (especially Muslim realms) while others wouldn't care. Perhaps under realm laws we are missing "Religious Morality" (it should be hard to switch).
That's not entirely accurate. Nobody cared if a man were to sleep with someone other than his wife. But if a woman were to sleep with someone outside of her husband, that places the paternity of all of her children into question. Best case scenario: it weakens their claim or legitimacy. Worst case scenario: they are disinherited.

With that in mind, anyone that sleeps with their top liege's wife or daughter-in-law should be executed without question. The wife or daughter-in-law of any independent ruler should have a high chance of either being executed or divorced. I've half a mind to make a mod that does this, but it would require a lot of event modding.
 
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