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CathyMe

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Some dumb priestess murdered my daughter and heir, but if I dare imprison her everyone will hate me. What gives? It's not like she died under suspicious circumstances, the cause of death clearly states "Murdered on the order of X", but she's got no "known murdered" modifier
 

Asphyxion

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I find a lot of things like this is stupid. There needs to be more imprisonment reasons in general. The only way now if really if theyre part of an active plot.

Regency actions for instance should have possible repercussions. If someone changes your laws during regency or gives your titles away you should be able to imprison and torture that fucker to death without any tyranny. He kinda had it coming. Also, inheritance that fucks up your internal borders should be able to be resolved without tyranny. Right now you have to go to such extreme lenght just to sort it out again if you dont want to incur tyranny so its kinda stupid. You shouldnt need to exterminate the entire dynasty of a loyal capable vassal just because some shit ass count under him decided to marry wrong and inherit another county in another vassals lands.
 

stavern

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Dont think i ever had a valid reason to imprison when someone killed any of my child/heir. But i dont care i will retract vassal from from count/duke and imprison. Success executed flee to another court plot to kill. Always hoping that ai will learn not to touch any of my children or siblings but they continue killing. Once married a quick/strong wife but failed to notice she had kinslayer so recieved endless request to support plot. When she got pregnant and found out had cheated i supported plot. Did not last 6 months after that.
 

yapxingguan

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Just happened to me a while ago, some count killed my wife i can't imprison him because he's not directly my vassal even though I'm king..
weird how powerless i feel that i can't even out my own vassal's vassal into trial
 
Last edited:

Thingy Person

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Regency actions for instance should have possible repercussions. If someone changes your laws during regency or gives your titles away you should be able to imprison and torture that fucker to death without any tyranny. He kinda had it coming. Also, inheritance that fucks up your internal borders should be able to be resolved without tyranny. Right now you have to go to such extreme lenght just to sort it out again if you dont want to incur tyranny so its kinda stupid. You shouldnt need to exterminate the entire dynasty of a loyal capable vassal just because some shit ass count under him decided to marry wrong and inherit another county in another vassals lands.
Disagree on all of these... Your vassals have the right to marry whomever they please and you as liege aren't entitled to redraw the internal borders whenever you feel like it. They are feudal lords, not civil servants. As for your regent, he was just doing his job in the eyes of the realm.

But someone who is known to have murdered a family member should definitely be subject to free imprisonment.
 

randomgamer71

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Vassals are jealous of their prerogatives, you can't just jump in and arrest/execute one of their vassals.

That said there should be a way to persuade them to off the **cker. What if they would add a use for favours to ask someone to support a plot. Of course it would be heavily conditional, but it could be really useful.
 

CathyMe

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The problem in my case was that my character didn't even care her child was murdered. I clearly remember that people who get caught murdering someone, they get a know murderer modifier, and the close relatives of the victim (especially children and parents) would become your rivals, but this didn't happened to my ruler, so I have a feeling this might be a bug.
 

Tryvenyal

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She is a vassal of one of my count, but I can imprison her. It's just that I get -40 opinion modifier for unjust imprisonment with everyone in my realm.

Missed that part. :)

I think this is because you know more than your charachter of some reason. Without Known Murderer, your charachter does know she is a murderer, at least your charachter is not able to present a trustfull charge against her that your vassals approve for.
the UI often gives you more information than your charachter have. Such us who is a charachter´s lovers.
 

yapxingguan

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She is a vassal of one of my count, but I can imprison her. It's just that I get -40 opinion modifier for unjust imprisonment with everyone in my realm.
The problem is you can't imprison your vassal's vassal even if said vassal killed a family member.
you'd have to retract the vassalage first then imprison the offending count.

a method which is kinda gamey.
 

CathyMe

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Missed that part. :)

I think this is because you know more than your character of some reason. Without Known Murderer, your character does know she is a murderer, at least your charachter is not able to present a trustfull charge against her that your vassals approve for.
the UI often gives you more information than your character have. Such us who is a charachter´s lovers.
I might agree, but the cause of death clearly states "murdered on the order of", not "died under suspicious circumstances" and before HF, I remember that this would give you the modifier which gave everyone open season on imprisonment, and close relatives of the victim would become rivals with the murderer. In my case my character didn't react at all, no rivalry or opinion malus. And this happened several times since HF, and I don't know if it's a bug or working as intended.
 

Kipman2000

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In one game my character was a King, got kidnapped by this countess in my realm, imprisoned, put in the oubliette, before she castrated my character and released him. No reason for imprisonment or anything afterwards.

Needless to say she didn’t last long and her children inherited nothing because everything she owned was revoked and she eventually died in the oubliette of the royal castle.

I just feel that should give some means of imprisonment or revenge without incurring tyranny
 

Asphyxion

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Disagree on all of these... Your vassals have the right to marry whomever they please and you as liege aren't entitled to redraw the internal borders whenever you feel like it. They are feudal lords, not civil servants. As for your regent, he was just doing his job in the eyes of the realm.

But someone who is known to have murdered a family member should definitely be subject to free imprisonment.

The eyes of the realm... You must be fun at parties. :( Internal border gore is annoying, there needs to be ways to fix it. In real life people would generally hold lands in the same general area. Not own a small county on the other side of the world. For purely logistical reasons. There was never any case of someone owning a duchy in Northern England and then owning a duchy down in Spain too. It should if anything be harder to defend land that is very far away from your own and the AI with their main holdings close by should be much more prone to reclaim said land. There should also be "plots" where you can tell the vassal you will support him in such a war by asking the other ruler to stand down. Right now they very very rarely actually reclaim land they lost through inheritance, the AI should be much more prone to reclaim their de jure lands then they are at the moment. De jure and de jure shifting needs to be a much more central part of the game.
 

Duskwave

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This always drives me nuts. Also that the system makes it specifically so your wives/daughters can by spymasters, but a vassal (not vassal-vassal, direct) murdering your spymaster to avoid getting caught doing something, and everyone knowing they did it is A-OK fine and not a crime, that's weird enough, but you murder my wife because she found out you were up to no good? And you got seen, everyone knows you did it, but I'm not supposed to have any reaction or care at all, it'd be tyranny to react? What the hell idea is that?
 

Kipman2000

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I would even go so far to suggest a negative malus if you *don’t* go and get revenge of some kind if someone murders your wife or daughter, simply because that would be expected
 

CathyMe

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This always drives me nuts. Also that the system makes it specifically so your wives/daughters can by spymasters, but a vassal (not vassal-vassal, direct) murdering your spymaster to avoid getting caught doing something, and everyone knowing they did it is A-OK fine and not a crime, that's weird enough, but you murder my wife because she found out you were up to no good? And you got seen, everyone knows you did it, but I'm not supposed to have any reaction or care at all, it'd be tyranny to react? What the hell idea is that?
This was very likely what happened in my case. The daughter in question was my spymaster
 

diiter

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In real life people would generally hold lands in the same general area. Not own a small county on the other side of the world. For purely logistical reasons. There was never any case of someone owning a duchy in Northern England and then owning a duchy down in Spain too.
Thats simply not true. For example, look at Otto von Northeim, bavarian duke in 1066 start. He was a saxon count who was awarded the duchy of bavaria by Emperor Heinrich IV., that doesnt mean he lost his lands in saxony. Why should he anyway? They are his lands by right, without a good reason no one has a business taking them from him just because he got another office on the other side of the country.
The real life legal circumstances surrounding the possession of land and holding offices like Duke or Count were much more complicated than CK2 can portrait them.