Why can't I defeat Yemen as Saudi Arabia?

[The_Tim]

I don't think he's looking that far yet.A person is only immersed in the game. A united Arabia is a very difficult goal. Fight against 2 alliances. (actually 3x, because of the 3-sided act.It is difficult to do this for Arabia.This is better than for Iran. There's a better industry and a lot of people there.

Iran doesn't get United Arabia I don't think, they get Persia instead

IIRC the best nation to do a United Arabia attempt is Iraq, but that's because its the best of several very sad options(if we are talking about ALL nations, then I'd say a released Egypt, but that's splitting some hairs)

 

[NeomerArcana]

Well, I made the decision to attack Iran. Things were going well. I even built an Intelligence Agency, recruited two spies, and set them onto propaganda and army intelligence.

Very slowly I built a submarine and set it upon Iranian convoys. I even researched light aircraft and began fielding a squadron of CAS and a Squadron of Fighters. A bit funny, but I was able to research better aircraft a lot faster than I could build them. All of my infantry and artillery techs were up to date.

But I was impatient. I could see that Iran had more divisions than me, so I tried rushing Tehran. I though a quick capitulation, aided in part by my propaganda war, would yield results.

Unfortunately for me, the Iranians encircled and decimated my army. They won, and eventually took the Iraqi states in restitution. I ended the game there.

I will try again! However, I think I need to take Iraq and move onto Iran. If I give them too much time, their preparation stops me.

But, one of the reasons I tried to rush Tehran is that Iran had more divisions. In a prolonged land battle, they posed a risk of being able to outmaneaouver me (attacking from multiple directions etc). I barely had enough divisions to cover the front.

I've been building my infantry divisions with 40 width. Should I be using a smaller division size so that I can have a bit more options in a land war?

 

[Viktor BM]

Iran doesn't get United Arabia I don't think, they get Persia instead

IIRC the best nation to do a United Arabia attempt is Iraq, but that's because its the best of several very sad options(if we are talking about ALL nations, then I'd say a released Egypt, but that's splitting some hairs)

The 1st is only enough for reconnaissance. at the level of 50-60%, switch the network to hidden mode. That's enough

Very slowly I built a submarine and set it upon Iranian convoys

Absolutely no need

part by my propaganda war

There is no need for any propaganda

I tried to rush Tehran is that Iran had more divisions

The number of divisions is of little importance.The main thing is that it is enough to close the front line, and 5-7 for a shock fist

But, one of the reasons I tried to rush Tehran is that Iran had more divisions. In a prolonged land battle, they posed a risk of being able to outmaneaouver me (attacking from multiple directions etc). I barely had enough divisions to cover the front.

I've been building my infantry divisions with 40 width. Should I be using a smaller division size so that I can have a bit more options in a land war?

I wrote to you the composition of the division is optimal for any minor state. 9 helmets and artillery in the main, a shovel and artillery in support. After that, if possible, add 1 more helmet, to the air defense support, and air defense to the main stack.(this is for the war with the majors).Nothing else is needed

 

[NeomerArcana]

The 1st is only enough for reconnaissance. at the level of 50-60%, switch the network to hidden mode. That's enough

Absolutely no need

There is no need for any propaganda

The number of divisions is of little importance.The main thing is that it is enough to close the front line, and 5-7 for a shock fist

I wrote to you the composition of the division is optimal for any minor state. 9 helmets and artillery in the main, a shovel and artillery in support. After that, if possible, add 1 more helmet, to the air defense support, and air defense to the main stack.(this is for the war with the majors).Nothing else is needed

Idk man, the submarine and propaganda is pretty good in terms of role-playing as Saudi Arabia. My people yearn to take to the skies and the water, they should be renowned throughout the Middle East for their intelligence.

As for the composition. I don't really want what's ideal. My question was around the division width. Is it generally better to have fewer divisions with greater width, or more divisions with narrower width? I'm leaning toward more divisions just so I can hold the front.

 

[The_Tim]

Idk man, the submarine and propaganda is pretty good in terms of role-playing as Saudi Arabia. My people yearn to take to the skies and the water, they should be renowned throughout the Middle East for their intelligence.

As for the composition. I don't really want what's ideal. My question was around the division width. Is it generally better to have fewer divisions with greater width, or more divisions with narrower width? I'm leaning toward more divisions just so I can hold the front.

Division Width doesn't matter in the sense of 2x20w vs. 1x40w since NSB deleted that meta IIRC

 

[NeomerArcana]

Division Width doesn't matter in the sense of 2x20w vs. 1x40w since NSB deleted that meta IIRC

I didn't realise this. I just checked the dev diaries and you are right. More divisions it is!

 

[Viktor BM]

Idk man, the submarine and propaganda is pretty good in terms of role-playing as Saudi Arabia. My people yearn to take to the skies and the water, they should be renowned throughout the Middle East for their intelligence.

As for the composition. I don't really want what's ideal. My question was around the division width. Is it generally better to have fewer divisions with greater width, or more divisions with narrower width? I'm leaning toward more divisions just so I can hold the front.

role-playing is not about this game.
A submarine is useless for Iran, it does not usually make purchases by sea.
I gave the template not because it is perfect, but because it is optimal for a minor. Divisions of 40 are not needed at all.Nowhere. they are much weaker than 3x27. or 4x20. You don't have enough supplies and people for such units.There is an easier way to determine what width to make divisions .Look at the terrain where you can fight. for example:Imagine that this is a plain with a front width of 90. thus, the optimal for you will be either 3x30 (better 27 is now meta) or 9x10. In the mountains, the optimal width is 15-17 cm. and so on.

! For the initial stage of the game, and wars with minors, width and 17 are enough. it is more important that they are fully equipped, and there are enough of them.

 

[marcelo r. r.]

Well, I made the decision to attack Iran. Things were going well. I even built an Intelligence Agency, recruited two spies, and set them onto propaganda and army intelligence.

Very slowly I built a submarine and set it upon Iranian convoys. I even researched light aircraft and began fielding a squadron of CAS and a Squadron of Fighters. A bit funny, but I was able to research better aircraft a lot faster than I could build them. All of my infantry and artillery techs were up to date.

But I was impatient. I could see that Iran had more divisions than me, so I tried rushing Tehran. I though a quick capitulation, aided in part by my propaganda war, would yield results.

Unfortunately for me, the Iranians encircled and decimated my army. They won, and eventually took the Iraqi states in restitution. I ended the game there.

I will try again! However, I think I need to take Iraq and move onto Iran. If I give them too much time, their preparation stops me.

But, one of the reasons I tried to rush Tehran is that Iran had more divisions. In a prolonged land battle, they posed a risk of being able to outmaneaouver me (attacking from multiple directions etc). I barely had enough divisions to cover the front.

I've been building my infantry divisions with 40 width. Should I be using a smaller division size so that I can have a bit more options in a land war?

Against Iran u should try something like this,
don't invest in larger divisions, u need encircle them, unless purpusely u want attrition war.

The weak point are south and center, because theres no mountains... the danger is north, is mountanious. u must reach teeran at same time encircling north troops.

Also their small railway pass south. if u break there, they get supply problems.

 

[NeomerArcana]

role-playing is not about this game.

Whew, lad. I literally play this game with a scimitar strapped to my side.

 

[NeomerArcana]

I don't mean to necro, but I wanted to update this.

It's impossible to unite Arabia as Saudi Arabia. I managed to get as far as taking Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Oman, and Yemen. The war ended and during the peace conference I annexed all of them (Yemen and Oman were my personal wars). I even managed to take Italian North Africa!

But after that... There's no way you can take French Syria/Lebanon or UK held Egypt and Saudi States.

In the only game I managed to get as far as I did, Germany ended up democratic with the Central European faction. UK left the allies but joined before I could justify a war. But it's all a little irrelevant.

UK and France will always be too powerful. In previous games, a fascist Germany, who may help you with UK and France, results in Iran, Iraq, joining the Axis when you declare war on them. And you can have previously joined the Axis, because that will mean they join allies and then you have a French and British problem.

Even with Axis, you still need Italian North Africa.

You just can't do it. Or at least, I can't see what sequence of events allows it.

 

[Findell_HOI]

It would be technically possible but its very difficult. You would have to join the war at the right time and not join either the axis or allies you could join japans or chinas or the soviets faction.


The easiest way for it to work is to declare war on the allies after italy has lost their east african bits and they have taken back the levant region and then take all that back yourself.

 

[marcelo r. r.]

I don't mean to necro, but I wanted to update this.

It's impossible to unite Arabia as Saudi Arabia. I managed to get as far as taking Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Oman, and Yemen. The war ended and during the peace conference I annexed all of them (Yemen and Oman were my personal wars). I even managed to take Italian North Africa!

But after that... There's no way you can take French Syria/Lebanon or UK held Egypt and Saudi States.

In the only game I managed to get as far as I did, Germany ended up democratic with the Central European faction. UK left the allies but joined before I could justify a war. But it's all a little irrelevant.

UK and France will always be too powerful. In previous games, a fascist Germany, who may help you with UK and France, results in Iran, Iraq, joining the Axis when you declare war on them. And you can have previously joined the Axis, because that will mean they join allies and then you have a French and British problem.

Even with Axis, you still need Italian North Africa.

You just can't do it. Or at least, I can't see what sequence of events allows it.

join axis, the warscore system privilege occupations u have in the peace conference..

Wait allies land in europe. cut off suez.

But Saudi Arabia will have pain to build enough manpower i guess, use the mass assault doctrine branch that give extra manpower.

Save germany at last minute is the best rewarding game right now:

 

[The_Tim]

I don't mean to necro, but I wanted to update this.

It's impossible to unite Arabia as Saudi Arabia. I managed to get as far as taking Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Oman, and Yemen. The war ended and during the peace conference I annexed all of them (Yemen and Oman were my personal wars). I even managed to take Italian North Africa!

my opinions:

To preface, uniting Arabia has gotten FAR harder since MTG, since oil started to be transformed into fuel instead of being something used to produce Tanks and Airplanes(which was handy since the middle-east really doesn't have any other resources, plus it made oil reliably bought instead of something bought during wartime)

I don't think you need to take Iran do you? As Saudi Arabia you already are stretching both your WT wiggle room and manpower extremely hard with Oman, Yemen, and Iraq. I would say making Iran a puppet would be a good idea for the manpower, but then you have the issue that both USSR and UK gets wargoals on Iran

As for beating the UK, your first priority has to be taking the small enclaves that the UK has all across arabia, once these are taken(and preferably small 10w or so divisions are put on the ports) you can then focus on taking Syria and Palestine, from my experience the UK itself normally doesn't put that much in Africa, but it depends on how Anal the UK AI is feeling(ofc, France has to have fallen to the Axis first)

the most important thing I'd say is having a rail connection with all the ports of N. Africa, as with the Supply Rework Arabia is something else that has gotten quite..... negatively impacted

Honestly though, if I'd have to give my recommendation attempt Arabia with Iraq, it doesn't have much, but it has roughly double the core population compared to Saudi Arabia

 

[NeomerArcana]

my opinions:

To preface, uniting Arabia has gotten FAR harder since MTG, since oil started to be transformed into fuel instead of being something used to produce Tanks and Airplanes(which was handy since the middle-east really doesn't have any other resources, plus it made oil reliably bought instead of something bought during wartime)

I don't think you need to take Iran do you? As Saudi Arabia you already are stretching both your WT wiggle room and manpower extremely hard with Oman, Yemen, and Iraq. I would say making Iran a puppet would be a good idea for the manpower, but then you have the issue that both USSR and UK gets wargoals on Iran

As for beating the UK, your first priority has to be taking the small enclaves that the UK has all across arabia, once these are taken(and preferably small 10w or so divisions are put on the ports) you can then focus on taking Syria and Palestine, from my experience the UK itself normally doesn't put that much in Africa, but it depends on how Anal the UK AI is feeling(ofc, France has to have fallen to the Axis first)

the most important thing I'd say is having a rail connection with all the ports of N. Africa, as with the Supply Rework Arabia is something else that has gotten quite..... negatively impacted

Honestly though, if I'd have to give my recommendation attempt Arabia with Iraq, it doesn't have much, but it has roughly double the core population compared to Saudi Arabia

I think the problem is that Iraq gets a Persia goal, not Unite Arabia. I mean... semantics, but it's a little different for me role-play wise.

Yeah, I don't think you need Iran and Afghanistan, I'm not at home to check. But I wanted Iran and Afghanistan because I am able to quickly take Iraq, Yemen, and Oman, so quick that war hasn't really broken out despite the coalescing factions. So my idea was to keep my country on a war footing and grab additional factories and manpower etc.

But you put me onto something there. With Iran and Afghanistan, I end up with a border against India, Sinkiang, and whatever flavour of Russia is in the north. This created problems for me after declaring on the Allies, as both India and Russian Federation joined in. Maybe having a little buffer would be good. Would it be at all helpful if Iran and Afghanistan entered into a new faction with me?

Rail connections were definitely a priority for me, supply throughout Arabia is horrible. In fact, for the war against the Allies, I was surprised by how crippling it is to cut off their rail lines (I'm relatively new to HOI4).

For me, both France and UK were considerable problems in Suez/Syria/Lebanon. It was late, like 1948 by that stage though. Takes almost a year to justify wargoals in some situations, and I can't do them too soon or they time out and I suffer a huge stability penalty. There was no Italy in North Africa either, so I think that opened them up. Taking their scattered parts of Arabia was easy, but the thing that really killed me was lack of equipment and manpower. I just didn't have enough divisions to both attack Syria and Suez, as well as defend mainland Arabia from UK naval invasions, AND hold off the Russians and Indians.

Maybe I'll have another crack at it.

 

[marcelo r. r.]

U don't need join war against russia, keep rejecting german invitation..

UK leave suez/levant almost undefended. u can try swarm it with small CAV divisions. just need be fast.

The nightmare is libia supply/railwoad vacuum to link to north africa. the USA AI will try defende Magreb if its 1942 or beyond. the USA divisions is tough even for major contries.

in BBA, the ormuz strait is closed for disputed nations. so u dont need worry about naval invasions on persian gulf if u get the enclaves.

Always buy steel from germany, this give them a boost that will impact the war... i noticed when run minors, that germany gets more OP when receiving CIVs from trade.

 

[The_Tim]

I think the problem is that Iraq gets a Persia goal, not Unite Arabia. I mean... semantics, but it's a little different for me role-play wise.

Yeah, I don't think you need Iran and Afghanistan, I'm not at home to check. But I wanted Iran and Afghanistan because I am able to quickly take Iraq, Yemen, and Oman, so quick that war hasn't really broken out despite the coalescing factions. So my idea was to keep my country on a war footing and grab additional factories and manpower etc.

But you put me onto something there. With Iran and Afghanistan, I end up with a border against India, Sinkiang, and whatever flavour of Russia is in the north. This created problems for me after declaring on the Allies, as both India and Russian Federation joined in. Maybe having a little buffer would be good. Would it be at all helpful if Iran and Afghanistan entered into a new faction with me?

Rail connections were definitely a priority for me, supply throughout Arabia is horrible. In fact, for the war against the Allies, I was surprised by how crippling it is to cut off their rail lines (I'm relatively new to HOI4).

For me, both France and UK were considerable problems in Suez/Syria/Lebanon. It was late, like 1948 by that stage though. Takes almost a year to justify wargoals in some situations, and I can't do them too soon or they time out and I suffer a huge stability penalty. There was no Italy in North Africa either, so I think that opened them up. Taking their scattered parts of Arabia was easy, but the thing that really killed me was lack of equipment and manpower. I just didn't have enough divisions to both attack Syria and Suez, as well as defend mainland Arabia from UK naval invasions, AND hold off the Russians and Indians.

Maybe I'll have another crack at it.

Man for someone new you got yourself into a ROUGH challenge. As for your question about Iraq, it does indeed have Unite Arabia, its Iran that has restore Persia

As for forming Arabia, you actually don't even need Yemen and Oman, though I'd say if you can take them for cheap it'd be worth it(it also makes it much easier to take British Yemen, which can be annoying to take if the brits get troops there)

U don't need join war against russia, keep rejecting german invitation..

Issue is that the Russias get a Wargoal on Iran, and if Iran is puppeted, and thus Fascist, then UK also gets a WG which very well can and will be an issue eventually

anyways, what should be a high priority for you is timing, you need to strike while the iron is hot, and going to war with the allies by 1939/1940, utilizing the fact that the UK and France recently lost large amounts of troops to make your conquest of their middle-eastern possessions much easier. If you decide to invade Iran and puppet them, then don't bring them into the war, if you make colonial templates you can use their manpower as your own without having to bother with bringing them in, as to keep that buffer for as long as humanly possible

 

[NeomerArcana]

Man for someone new you got yourself into a ROUGH challenge.

I've had countless hours in HOI3, only just recently having made the transition to HOI4.

 

[jacekgk]

Here's a very good guide from Bittersteel:

This video is little outdated, because it was making two DLC's ago, but I think most of strategies could be still repeatable. Especially switching ideology on communist for countries like Saudi Arabia and Iraq is more valuable now, thanks this wonderful army spirit, witch resolves Your issues with manpower.